Bobby Eshleman

What kind of shroom? If it's a primary decomposer like oysters or something, then the easiest way is to just innoculate more dowels or woodchips. That is as simple as boiling the woodchips or dowels, letting them cool, then mixing them with some innoculant into a clean bag, tub or box. No sterilization necessary. Even simpler is to use cardboard instead of woodchips/dowels.

If it is not a p. decomposer then I think the best way to test viability is using any sterile medium. This could be agar or grain. I prefer popcorn instead of wild birdseed because I have had better luck with the moisture content being right.

Brent, shiitake are grown indoors and outdoors. They fruit perfectly fine off of sawdust cakes indoors (search "shiitake pf cakes"), as well as logs. For some reason they do not fruit well off of wood chips according to Paul Stamets in his book "The Mushroom Cultivator". To me, mushrooms are one of the most exciting things to grow and I hope you enjoy the projects as much as I do mine!

If you don't mind experimenting a little, you could strip some of the bark at your inoculation point to compare the growths. I've never grown shiitake, but that growth at the top right is very typical for other white-mycelium types I've seen like Oysters.

Does anyone have any experience with using a plastic tub (like a rubbermaid or sterilite) for a cold frame? I plan on starting a larger number of plants indoors but would rather not be dependent on electricity for starting seeds and wouldn't mind saving the space. Yay or nay?

link for picture
http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a437/ourlittlefarm/DCP_3839.jpg

I plan on doing biointensive-style polyculture of veggies and flowers in my hugels... I'm not sure of that is a bad idea or not as this is basically my first year.

Brenda Groth wrote:even if you are paying less for food cause you are growing your own, that is a net profit of what you didn't have to pay out that you would have. And there also might be non $ profits such as better health, less dr visits, exercise in fresh air, etc.. There is also the profit of more rain, better quality soil, time management, etc.. so it is hard to define profit only to $ and c

That's true. And there are some people in Agroforestry working to develop better financial/economic analysis for this issue right now, which will hopefully establish the facts a little more. Still, they will be primarily analyzing only labor-time and money.

paul wheaton wrote:

I wish to be clear: it is okay for them to wish for these other things to be not profit driven. But profit in permaculture is, officially, okay. Further, I wish to give the stink-eye to those that would attempt to shame others away from profit in permaculture.

Like Toby Hemenway's recent article mentions, there is a tendency to confuse ethics and practice in permaculture.

When we talk about permaculture and world hunger projects, profit is important because these projects depend on local people. You have to get people involved somehow. I think that's why Willie Smitts in his TEDTalk addresses profit as a pillar of his reforestation program at Samboja Lestari.

Profit is not only not a bad thing, it should be at the center of permaculture. Capitalism has spread to almost every nook and cranny in the world, it has gone viral, and the way to ride that wave is through profit. Profit, the reason for investment or "the profit motive", has evolved from being an aspect of capitalism to the more essential purpose of capitalist economics. So capitalism drives investment into what is profitable, why deny investment into ecological farming? After all, the permaculture approach is to leverage the situation towards a function-stacked advantage.

I recognize that Capitalism has unsustainable tendencies. The systemic relationship between capital, labor and resources tends towards unhappy workers and an unstable ecology. I'm not pro-capital, but until alternatives are realized I see no reason to not try and use the system for a better future. Programs like ESOPs (employee stock ownership plans) could be used in transitioning towards more sustainable economic models. The social aspect is vital, but so is designing forms of capital that improve the planet's health. Demand and consumption is another important topic. I want to see more discussion on money, what do you think?

Credit to Paul Wheaton for originally addressing this issue.

I noticed the rye too, but then realized there was a lower growing ground-cover of some kind mixed in.

Does anyone know how well the Krematahoff competes economically?

[found some information, thanks Paul]
https://permies.com/t/2641/farm-income/sepp-holzer-income

Below is a financial and economic analysis of agroforestry case studies. I have only read the first case where shrubs for fodder inter-planted with pasture grass increased cow milk production. This increased financial yield $79-$125 USD per cow per year, after the first year, depending on whether the fodder was replacing purchased dairy supplement or is the first use of supplement. At 1.7 cows per family (the average for this region), the potential income benefit would be a 10% increase in total family income yearly.

The improved fallow case study, however, seemed to under perform. The preview doesn't show any studies beyond those two.

I'm sure the other case studies are interesting too.

http://books.google.com/books?id=Q7rGRgFV2zwC&printsec=frontcover&dq=ISBN:+1402024126&hl=en&sa=X&ei=La7OUOfKDInMigKT4YDoBg&ved=0CDsQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false