Evan Nilla

Dan Boone wrote:If this unit has solved the hard problem (getting a machine to distinguish and successfully handle the ripe berry) there will soon be other units that do it better, faster, cheaper, and under more complicated circumstances.  Including -- this would be the permaculture dream -- in a polyculture.  Imagine a solar-powered quadcopter that docks on your porch.  It's no bigger than your hand.  It tirelessly roams out into your garden.  During raspberry season, it brings back one perfect raspberry at a time, depositing them in a little solid-state chiller in its docking station to await your collection at your convenience.  When it runs low on battery it sits on the charging station.  When it runs low on perfect berries, it senses ones with bugs or worms and snips them, taking them straight to your hot compost pile or your chicken run or other designated destination.  .

:) thank you yes, i really appreciate that sentiment. I'm just saying if there are any particular tech savvy permies out there, that strawberry farmer did it, there isn't any reason it can't be adapted to other/similar areas. i just saw such huge/alternative potential to this and thought i might spread some potential. anywho, thank you for your time

because there is a labor issue involved in harvesting all this 'unorganized' flora, and i would be much more confident if i wasn't reliant upon volunteer labor if i was trying to manage some sort of production. on top of which, its obvious to me, but this would put permaculture into a large scale potential and 'out of the backyard'. this literally has the potential to 'save the planet'. we all well know how devastating the monocultural systems are.

this is just a simple programming difference, the strawberry picker is completely functional, and obviously the robotics have caught up. meaning programming for a polyculture is not so far of from realizing the difference between ripe and unripe strawberries vs an apple and a blueberry. i understand the techonology and software behind it, so maybe its easier for me to 'see' but i don't really have a simple way to explain all that.

you could have a diverse polyculture on a large scale and have "smart AI harvester robots" manage acres and acres, that the simple row crop harvesting machines we have currently are unable to manage.

there are also systems like miracle harms or mark shepards that are not vastly complex and would be a good 'starting point'.

this is how it pertains to permaculture. i've been waiting for this for years. most ironic part is that the strawberry farmer did this out of necessity, developed over seven years because of labor issues.

i'm unclear about the bias against this, maybe someone can give me some insight there

----edit
again, maybe i'm missing something, but this just seems obvious 'breakthrough' to me, the strawberry farmer developed this on his own.  Maybe this isn't in the right sub forus, but when i did a search, similar topics were posted under these subforums.

not sure if there is a video of the strawberry picker, but it works at night, runs on diesel and is completely functional.

this is the raspberry picker https://twitter.com/RobotAndAIWorld/status/1132765437782122502

i said this years ago, but this is what is going to transform permaculture, it will completely negate the harvesting issue.

they are 'smart' enough to know what is ripe and what is not, its just a matter of programming now that the robotics have been worked out.

This is really interesting like, Acharya Kanad, do you have any links to the science data that has proven Steiner's work?? Sorry to hijack the thread. Archaea, isn't there a commercially available strain used for pesticide/herbicide/fungicide?? Don't remember which..

Bryant RedHawk wrote:The members of Archaea can feed on many different items that are considered pollutants, most operate in stagnant waters in nature but many members can be found in places like oil saturated soils, they are aerobic in nature.
Most of the ones we read about are cultured in vitro where conditions can be monitored and controlled because they are being raised to take care of things like oil spills.

In the soil they can remediate many of the pollutants found in farm fields (pesticide and herbicide residues, fertilizers as well as the drips from farm equipment.
In the soil world, they are one of many organisms that work interdependently with most of the other organisms, they will be found in large numbers in places of high food sources (for them) and low fungal concentrations.
Some of the members of this genus feed on beneficial bacteria that take care of making minerals available to fungi and then to plant roots. There are quite a few studies out there but take note of the specific organism each study is written about, they all don't act the same.

Some of Steiner's formulas stimulate growth of some of the species of Archaea we want to be living in our soil.  Many of his interaction ideas have been proven recently and others are still under scrutiny by researchers.

Redhawk

hmm, this thread puts some pieces together for me actually. i think its just a wave of things more or less, this pattern, or a feeling i have in life right now. a lot of people are kind of at this stage. "but, i've put so much effort into this vastly significant thing for so long, why isn't it everywhere by now". it is, and it isn't... just doesn't take the shape we want.

if one is to look at history, or mankind in a long term arc... this current behaviour has been represented now for thousands or years. vastly significant shifts in consciousness take Millenia. look at the transitions from hunter-gatherer to how we are now. hundred thousand year arc. And there is so much disinformation and distraction out there right now...

But its ok Paul, you've done a lot of really great stuff. you don't have to be a preacher for saving the world. doing what you are doing day to day is the most valuable thing. For those it has real value to, will find it. you know, we can only do what we can do, and as long as we do that we can't really be upset about it. Results are a nice thing, but, ultimately, our ends should justify our means. even if an 'end' is "saving the world"

Levente Andras wrote:Isn't this a case of shooting the messenger?  Facing up to reality and talking about problems equals "perpetuating" them?

The alternative would be to pretend those problems don't exist, but still keep blaming mainstream culture / society for their lack of acceptance for what permaculture is trying to do.  

You are saying that permaculture is a design system etc. (your quote of Mollison), and I agree that that's what it SHOULD be, but in reality isn't, because some people have taken it down a myriad of paths leading to nowhere meaningful. That's what I meant to say with the example of shamanic drumming. I'm not claiming permaculture is that, but some people throw in plenty of such ingredients into the mix that THEY call permaculture.

How can you "correct misapprehensions" if you advise against even mentioning those misapprehensions?

please follow the link i provided. the 'details' are well illustrated there already. as well the OP more or less said everything.

Evan Nilla wrote:i forgot to say, the OP did a good job of pretty much rounding up said issues, even more or less the entire possible things in this thread. "said it all" basically. think it more or less standardized what was beaten to death in https://permies.com/forums/posts/list/40/55689#466588

my meaning was misinterpreted.  when i said "whatever you want it to be" i did not literally mean those exact words, i was saying within the context of permaculture... Obviously Mollison's definition is idealized or a standard. within the context of permaculture, what i was trying to say, "permaculture is what you make of it".

before any further discussion, people seriously need to visit the link i posted. this topic was vvvveeeeeerrrrryyyy well covered there(as well as my thoughts, no point double posting them here also).