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Bethany Dutch

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since Jun 24, 2012
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Colville, WA Zone 5b
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Recent posts by Bethany Dutch

Timothy Markus wrote:

Bethany Dutch wrote: Now - all that to say, if I can think of one huge mistake that most young men do, it is to approach women as if they are some sort of "game" that has to be played.

I'm 48.  I think it's fair to say that I've seen as many women 'play' men as I've seen men 'play' women.  There's a lack of understanding from both perspectives and stupid approaches to dealing with the opposite sex from both sides.   What I've seen in this thread is that the majority of the advice is to be your authentic self and try to find someone who appreciates who you are and who 'fits' who you are.  

Bethany Dutch wrote: And for the love of God, do not treat us like we are a commodity to be acquired.

I don't know what you mean by MGTOW.  If you're referring to Dale and his fiancee, my take is that he's trying to bridge a culture gap to find a true partner, in every sense of the word. If you're referring to Robert, yeah, that guy's got a different perspective than most (all?) of the other guys that have posted in this thread.

Yep I agree women do it too! But since this thread is specifically about young men meeting girls, I phrased it for them. And yes, was referring to Robert's comment. I don't get a MGTOW vibe from Dale, although he certainly has a unique approach! But the MGTOW approach is more like a "women exist to meet my needs" approach which is not the vibe I get from Dale at all.
I've been thinking on this today and was curious what you guys thought.

I've often watched things like climate change, pollution, and the very simple fact that fossil fuels are a finite commodity.

Even if they didn't pollute, they are still finite... yet our society is so incredibly dependent on them.

So I see one of two things happening - either we will be stupid and run ourselves into the ground, and the world has some sort of massive economic crash that throws us back to the dark ages, or we figure it out before that happens and somehow develop a society that isn't dependent on fossil fuel.

What will that look like? I've always kinda thought the former would happen, but I was just thinking about what if it was the latter? What would our world look like?

What do you think the end result is going to be?
1 week ago
Well, the above long post is dangerously close to veering off into MGTOW-land, so for any young men reading this and thinking that "okay, this is what women want" I just want to interject this:

That is what SOME women want. And that is what SOME men want. Some, but not all.

If you want that kind of woman, then go for it! But don't feel like you have to.

I personally get absolutely zero satisfaction from "holding down the fort." In fact, being in that role (and I did it for many years) has a very negative effect on my mental health. I am a driven & ambitious entrepreneur - actually pretty good at making money myself, and if I ever got married again I can tell you I would not consider being a house wife BUT I would consider having a "house husband."

Now - some guys would deride me for that, sure. Maybe I'm a "ball buster" or "not feminine." But that, I think, is rooted in sexism. Why should I have to live a life that is unfulfilling and actually makes me go kind of crazy because of some cultural norm? Because of what's in my pants? I don't accept that. I'm glad to live in a time where I don't have be someone that other people think I should be. I can just be myself.

Not all women are the same.

Now - I don't consider myself a feminist. If anything, I'd love to use the term "humanist" but it means something different, so that's a no go.

So from my perspective, all it is is this - people, any gender, are different. We are often culturally conditioned to veer into one role or another, but the underlying person is always going to be different. So let's just treat people like individuals - HUMAN BEINGS. Let's not talk about ridiculous degrading things like "sexual market value" as if human beings are a commodity to be traded.

Let's just remember that we are people. And some people are going to fall in line with the cultural or historic norms. And some won't. Some will fall in line, but feel obligated to "rebel" anyway, which is in my opinion equally as unhealthy as someone bowing to the cultural expectation even though that isn't really them. (for example, the working wife who really just wants to stay home and take care of her family, I feel that is just unhealthy as a housewife who hates being a housewife and wants something more).

Conversely, I don't feel like any man should feel like he has to be the "big manly provider" if what he really wants to do is stay at home and take care of his family, and have his wife be free to be that breadwinner (assuming that's what she wants as well). And if anyone is reading this and thinking less of any man who would rather stay home and take care of the family instead of being the breadwinner, I would encourage you to consider that as a sexist way of thinking. because if that's the case, what you are basically saying is that "women's work" is inferior and only suited for (inferior) women. Just think about it. We shouldn't be dividing ourselves like that. Neither men nor women are inferior to the other.

Now - all that to say, if I can think of one huge mistake that most young men do, it is to approach women as if they are some sort of "game" that has to be played.

Women are just humans. Find women who have things in common with you, see if you have a connection with them, and then put yourself out there. It's as simple as that. And for the love of God, do not treat us like we are a commodity to be acquired.
First off, I absolutely ADORE this idea. Not to exclude or alienate men, but I think there's something about women specifically getting together to encourage, uplift, and support each other. And also as a single woman homesteader I've really found there are a lot of women who subconsciously feel like they "can't do" things they actually can, because oftentimes it hasn't occurred to them that they can. I hope that makes sense.

Some very good points being made that I agree with:

1. childcare available would make a huge massive difference for a lot of women.
2. keeping things more brown would be key. Religious / spiritual women's retreats are pretty common but I have never heard of a women's retreat type thing that was not spiritually based, which would be wonderful.

I love a lot of the topics that have come up, to be honest I suspect a lot of what women would be interested in, is the same as what men are interested in. Building stuff, using equipment, herbal stuff, bushcraft, food preservation, etc. Or, in other words, I personally would be interested in most of the same things most guys would be interested in.
1 month ago

Jess Dee wrote:I'll bet quite a lot of them, especially the pioneer women, probably were in the range that a modern doctor would call obese.  My own grandma (born in 1920) always commented that she didn't know what the doctors' problem was, considering she was healthy in every way, walked a couple of miles daily, lived on her own, kept a garden into her 80's, etc.  They called her obese.  Similarly, in my own community, I was talking to an older (in her mid 80's) neighbor, and commented on the doctor calling me fat...she replied that she thought I was a fine weight "for a woman your age" (mid 40's).  I found it interesting that she would (rightfully, really) associate different ages with different expectations for build / weight / etc.  

Even looking at old (Medieval and Renaissance) paintings, the women especially were often quite plump.  

There probably were not many (or any) morbidly obese people in times past, but I think it is only fairly recently that European societies have considered 'fatness' a problem (as opposed to a badge of honor, as the family was clearly well provided for).

That's kinda something I wonder as well. Because as much as I realize that the Pioneer life was a very physically demanding lifestyle, that's mostly in the startup years. What about when the home is built, the barn is raised, the garden is going, etc? As someone who is building her own home by hand, I can attest to that while there is a massive amount of energy expended setting up infrastructure, once it's there it's not like you continue that. (I'm not there yet, but it's a day I dream of LOL)

I can see the men being pretty much very fit the entire life, because they were the ones often doing most of the backbreaking work but I do know that the women did less of the backbreaking work and probably more jobs that involved sitting (like shelling peas, knitting socks, sewing, etc).

I suspect however that it really just does boil down to physical activity. Also think of Native Americans who grew the Three Sisters (Corn, beans and squash) and from what I can tell, the older folks and especially the women tended to plump up as well which I wonder is just due to a decrease in physical activity.
2 months ago
So riddle me this, something I've been ruminating on.

This isn't so much as it pertains to general health, but obesity specifically. I think if you're here in the Paleo forum you probably already "get" that processed carbohydrates are what make us obese, or at least are largely to blame. As far as I can see, the obesity epidemic really mostly took off in the 70s when the government and "experts" started telling us to eat more grains and less fats & meats.

So here's my question. If I look back to the days BEFORE that (like 1700s, 1800s), when obesity wasn't such a rampant thing, but people were still eating a lot of carbohydrates, why weren't they obese?

If you look at pioneer cooking, for example, my impression of what they ate especially in winter is pretty carb heavy since most winter vegetables are very starchy and they didn't have freezers. So, summer lots of fresh foods but in the winter, what - meat, lots of bread and especially corn stuff (because wheat & corn will keep, right?), and starchy winter vegetables. So were they not obese because of malnourishment? Or just they didn't eat as much food? Is it because the foods available back then were less processed? Did they just put on a lot more weight in the winter and lose it all in the summer? I read about the food people ate those days - biscuits, cornbread, etc. Meat seemed to be more of something they would stretch as far as it would go. Or maybe am I way off base and they only ate things like biscuits and cornbread on an occasional basis? Everything I've ever read wouldn't point to this, though.

Is it because they weren't constantly raising their insulin by snacking and instead were just eating 2-3 meals a day? Or maybe They WERE actually obese a lot of the time and we just don't think they were? I'm curious what you guys think.

For the record - I say this as a formerly obese person who never knew WHY she was obese. I didn't eat junkfood except on a rare occasion, was moderately active, ate mostly homemade from scratch (including breads and things) and didn't sit there eating for hours either. Going zero carb changed my life, and maybe my obesity is actually just due to metabolic issues from being raised in a home where low-fat and fat free (and high in grains) was the thing, but even back then there wasn't a lot of junk food in my diet. Or, in other words, please don't just tell me "it's because they weren't eating bags of potato chips, duh." Because I didn't do that either.
2 months ago
I think some of the parts of my off grid life have made me suffer mentally, for sure. I think in my case, it's the constant having to build things. When you're doing everything yourself (and in my case I'm a single mother with three kids), it just drags on and on and on. I hate using a composting bucket toilet, but I've used one for five years because I didn't have money (until now) to put in a septic. That stuff takes a toll - trying to deal with emptying buckets of raw sewage onto compost piles when there's knee deep snow outside and I'm using a lot of not-nice words to tell it how much I hate it... yeah.

Or the fact that this is my sixth year here and I am STILL not finished with my house. I feel like I can't do the homesteading that I want to do because everything takes so long to build. And then in the last 6 months or so I've come to realize that here, at this pace, I won't be able to do the things I need to do. I won't be able to add on to my house so my kids have their own bedrooms until they are practically grown and out of the house, so what's the point? I always wanted to raise my kids with horses, but that would require about a $40k investment just to get pastures cleared and a second well put in here.

Ultimately, I'm not sure what I'm going to do just yet. Personally what I want to do is move to a lower-cost area real estate wise (I've decided on Missouri) but until I can get my ex on board since I won't move the kids away from him, I'm pretty much stuck here. I may end up just cracking and taking out an equity loan and hiring someone to so all of it for me if I have to stay here until the kids are grown. I love being in the woods but I am burned out, bigtime. It's hard to motivate myself to work on the house these days.

But yeah so while I'd never ever move back to the city, doing the whole "building as you go with cash" has been very difficult for my mental health. And, in some ways, my physical health. Living without a refrigerator for three years caused a big health crash that I'm still recovering from. I don't think I'll do it again - when I'm finally able to sell and leave Washington, you better believe I will be buying a home with enough bedrooms for us all, a finished barn, etc. None of this ramshackle thrown together stuff where you're constantly scrambling from one project to another, spinning plates. I just want my home to be finished so I can actually do stuff like livestock and growing food, etc. I do some of those but not nearly as much as my heart would like, because all of my extra time and money goes into the house.
2 months ago
I am someone whose life was changed by a zero carb carnivore diet.

WHen I moved to my off grid home 5 years ago, I had no refrigerator and it took me 3 years to get enough power to run one. In the meantime I mostly lived out of a camping cooler.

This meant much less fresh meats and much more canned & carby foods, just very little meat in general, and a pretty close to vegetarian diet. It was still pretty "healthy" and mostly homemade.

It destroyed my health almost completely. By the time I went to my doctor trying to find out why I could not function, I had gained a bunch of weight, was pre-diabetic, had sleep apnea (probably because of the weight gain), horrible psoriasis all over my face, was constantly exhausted and literally would come home from dropping the kids off at the bus in the morning and then sleep another 3 hours (that's after sleeping 9 or so in the night).

The exhaustion was due to critically low iron levels, which didn't make sense to me since I always cook on cast iron, took a supplement, and was still consuming enough (plant based) iron rich foods, right? Wrong. I think my body doesn't absorb iron from plants.

Within 30 days of cutting out all carbs and eating meat only, I lost 30 lbs (yes, that's a lb a day), was no longer critically anemic, no more sleep apnea, no longer pre-diabetic, and I could go on. After about 5 months, my skin fully cleared and I have completely smooth skin now.

That was a really important lesson to me. There is no money to be made in healthy people and unfortunately as time goes on, this becomes more and more of an "agenda" in my opinion. I literally never take any study or especially governmental advice seriously anymore. I don't think I'll be 100% meat forever (and really, I'm more of a meat-heavy keto these days since I do enjoy some vegetables and I do treat myself to whatever I want on special occasions) but still - this is important. It makes me kinda mad when I see people vilifying meat as unhealthy when in fact it is quite the opposite, at least for me.
2 months ago
Depends on the state & county where you live. Where I'm at (Stevens County, WA) it is legal, although I suspect in 10-15 years that may not be the case anymore based on the laws and regulations I've been seeing come out on a state level in the last decade or so.
2 months ago
There's an old, dilapidated homestead on my land and it was literally built right on top of a stream. I always wondered why they did that - it's a VERY small stream and does tend to go dry in the summer, but it seems like it would have had an inherent risk of flooding so I just never understood it.

About a year ago or so, some of the youngest children (now in their 80s mostly) came one day for a visit and we had a great time chatting with them. Found out that it was intentionally built that way and they had build the home up a bit so there was space to accommodate any flooding but it never flooded the house. Most importantly, there was a trap door in the bottom of the floor with a hole dug out a bit deeper so even when the stream was "dry" in the summer, there was still a little water in there. Apparently they used to set a metal box with cold foods in there and draw it up through the trap door to use it as needed.

I thought that was quite interesting, not that I'd ever want to build my house on top of a stream but I liked the concept of it.
2 months ago