Jaime Wilder

Howdy everyone.

Mark Shepard talks about apples and diversity in some of his videos. I recommend finding them. He does a much better job describing this stuff than a few lines of text.

A quick mention at 2:19:00 in this video There are more though.

Apples from a nursery are grafted clones. Clones are problematic for a number of reasons, especially as the genetics age. And, the continuous hunt for suckers is annoying.

Diversity is good. Apples are amazing at producing diversity from seed. It's easier, and cheaper, and better. Yeah you'll get a bunch of biomass (for free) from trees that are not delicious, and maybe you'll discover the next great apple variety.

Sure, buy your favorite apple from a nursery. Then start planting seed.

Protection. I protect my trees from deer with trimmed branches from other trees. Deer hate going through prickly brush. Just place the cut end of the branch near the trunk of the tree you want to protect with branch tips facing outwards, and then stack.

Hey Paul.

Bitcoin is based on math. It's not based on wishful thinking or trust. In fact trust-less transactions are one of the things bitcoin is known for.

paul wheaton wrote:

And so here is a new entirely fake and made up currency that is based on the trust of a collection of geeks instead."

Stefan has a couple great informational videos on the topic if you want more detailed insight

Kempy Dupree wrote:I hate that I waste so much time, energy and money when I know if I had it set up correctly it would be productive.

Taking a design course is not absolutely necessary if you are just experimenting. Learning and experimenting on your own is great and totally encouraged.

As an aside, learning and experimenting don't stop after a PDC, it is just more focused. One of the things a PDC gives you is a foundation for proven strategies that are going to work in a particular climate. There is plenty of room for experimentation once you have a solid framework in place.

Kempy, I think you are looking for a more finalized, comprehensive plan. Not just a quick fix that might work for a little while. Something you can do once, and feel confident that it is going to work "forever". This is what permaculture is all about. And this is why you spend the time to design the system first.

I experimented for 15+ years while researching and learning as much as I possibly could on my own. I had all the books, watched all the videos, and visited numerous sites. I did so much independent learning that I thought that I would not get very much out of the PDC I took. I could not have been more wrong.

When you're ready to "set it up correctly", the knowledge, and perspective gained from a PDC is invaluable.

Permaculture is a design science. Design is critical.

Consideration of the big picture, and creating a framework which works to your benefit is the purpose of the design.

You can certainly utilize some permaculture techniques on a site. This may or may not work the way you expect, because it was not designed into the larger systems.

Take the raised beds for example... Why are they in that location? Is there a different location that would have been better? Are there more multi-functional elements which could be in that location instead? Why are they raised? Would a different planting technique work better? What elements are interacting with these beds, and what effects are they having on each other?

Here's a quick example from my experience:

Before I took my PDC, I allowed a housemate to build an annual garden at the bottom of my small property. He used good techniques, and applied a lot of human labor. It produced some food. But as I learned more, I realized that it was not functioning correctly given the system that it exists inside of. This year, inspired by the success of the rest of the design, I decided to completely redo this lower area so it was designed properly. I am 100% certain that this bottom region will be more productive now that it is integrated properly.

Without the PDC knowledge, I think I would have struggled with the un-designed system in it's malfunctioning state. Which would have only led to frustration.

You can take Geoff Lawton's online course if you can't find a PDC near you, or don't want to travel.

It sounds like you want a design.

The easiest way to do this is to hire/befriend a designer. Or, you can take a PDC if you want all of the information and training yourself.

Once you have a design, then you'll be able to focus in on implementing the different elements and it will all make sense from a big picture perspective.

Did I read your question correctly?

Thank you!!!

Deb Stephens wrote:Hi Ed,

That photo works perfectly. What you have there is an aster, probably the heath aster (Symphyotrichum ericoides) which does grow in your area and even down into Mexico. This is their bloom time. Hope that helps.

I'm so sorry. Is this image working?

This woody perennial is just starting to bloom at this time of year. Grows to 5-6 feet tall.

Any guesses on what this might be?

Southwest USA, zone 8.

Pavel Mikoloski wrote:work with an elevation map of your property and design such a system?

Google Earth + Google Sketchup allows you to create contour lines quickly and easily (and free). They are not perfect, but a great place to start a design.

sketchup tutorial

If you prefer, there are also several youtube videos on how to do this.

Tara Swenson wrote:
What I'm wondering is: is there a role for roses in a food forest/permaculture system?
?

Grapes and roses are supposedly companion plants.

Roses and Grapes

Geoff Lawton mentioned some related folklore "The roses are the doctors of the grapes".