Brian Vanderzanden

I'm in the wet, I mean West, side of Oregon. What I'm really looking for is any element analyses someone has done on typical permaculture elements in their design. You know, the analysis suggested of the characteristics, needs, and outputs of every element in your design...? I started writing up lists of things I have or would like in my design and quickly shot up over a hundred items and am still approaching 200. If people actually do this type of analysis as suggested I was thinking that information should be out there somewhere. I could see it saving dozens of hours in a persons planning phase if they don't have to sit down and think of or research all the elements in their design. Also, as it's hard to find all the information pertinent to what we're trying to do, like what plants are nitrogen fixers, what are water needs, what type of nutrients the plant would provide (in compost or chop-n-drop), etc.

I understand that part of the element analysis is self-educating, but I can do that education by reading the information in one place more efficiently than if I had to search 50 different resources trying to find the information.

Either nobody does this analysis (and the books I've read are lying), people are hoarding this information and not sharing, or there is a place out there to get this information.

Thanks,
Brian

Does anyone know what I'm talking about? I'd be really interested in seeing some examples of element analysis, especially a small guild worth to show the relationships in a guild.

Anybody?

Thanks,
Brian

In case I'm using the wrong term, what I meant by element analysis was the evaluation of each element in the design that outlines the characteristics of that element, its inputs, and its outputs.

Thanks,
Brian

I'm starting to get into the planning stage for my first project. I was wondering if there was a resource out there for element analysis. Yes, I could go through the hundred or so plants I'm thinking about and do my own element analysis, but it sure would help if there was a collection of these already out there somewhere. If there's nothing official if you have some you've done that you could share I'd greatly appreciate it.

Thanks,
Brian in Oregon

Thanks, Ernie. That helps. I have Ianto's book on order so I'm hoping that answers a lot of my questions.

I'm not a student of fluid dynamics, but am I wrong that movement through a square chamber is less efficient than through a round chamber of the same CSA?

In the diagram on your site (the one from Rocket Mass Heaters) I can't locate measurement "D". Is that the mentioned inside to inside measurement of the burn chamber?

If the book answers this my apologies (I have a hard time waiting for shipments when my mind is stuck on something), but does measurement H matter so long as it is larger than the CSA of the burn chamber? If so there's a lot of extra space I have to take up between my heat riser's outside diameter and the inside of my barrel.

Thanks for all the help folks. I think I have most of this down, I'm just trying to round out the edges a bit.

Brian
(Near Portland, OR)

Holy cow. How did I miss those links? Thanks for pointing them out. I've seen that diagram from Ernie and Erica's site but it was always too small to read. I didn't even realize Ernie and Erica actually had a site and that it was the source of that image. That will help out a lot.

Only progblem I have with the diagram is I can't find "D" and it's mentioned for heat riser height.

Okay, I've done some searching but couldn't find my answer (maybe I'm asking the wrong questions).

I'm considering doing a compressor conversion as was explained by an earlier poster (ZeroFossileFuel's Post). Looks like a great idea and I have a dead compressor looking for a good project.

I understand that CSA needs to be maintained through the system from feed tube to exhaust for good burn. Should it be as consistent as possible or is it better if it increases just slightly as it progresses through the system (smaller at feed than at final exhaust)?

Also, does the CSA of the bell housing around the heat riser need to also be consistent or can it be larger? It makes sense to me that if it is larger it would slow the gases at that point and you'd just lose more heat to the primary heating and not get quite as much into the heat mass. If that's acceptable to me will it mess with flow at all for it to be larger than the rest of the system CSA?

I understand there is a relationship of the heat riser height to the burn tunnel length, but is that measuring the heat tunnel at the top (between feed and heat riser), at the bottom, or an average of the two?

Finally, is there any relationship to the CSA of the feed tube to the heat riser? I would think that a larger feed tube (hence more fuel at one time) might require a taller heat riser to ensure secondary fuel consumption.

Now I just have to figure out how to cut the tank and how to convince the wife I need a welder.

Thanks for any input or possibly search terms that might lead me to these answers if they've already been asked. If this information is out there, it might be a good subject for a sticky topic along with some basic calculations, critical dimensions, etc.

Brian in Oregon