Brian Shaw

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since Jan 12, 2014
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Recent posts by Brian Shaw

So i'm planning to build a tiny...ish home.  Or at least the same construction method so i'm posting here - built onto the frame of either a schoolbus or a mobile home frame, possibly shortened.  I need something that can at least theoretically be moved or rolled - not necessarily on the open road, even just on land, because I cannot afford to clear all the land i'd like first so it's going to be parked next to the road the first few years until I can.

Now there's one critical change...

My best low cost simpler-to-DIY housing idea so far is to build what i'm calling a panel house.  Meaning every or nearly every part (insulated panels of floor, walls, roof) of the house breaks down into 4x8 panels because I will need to build those panels off-site where I have power, haul out fitting in the pickup bed, and then try to rapid-assemble on site.  Where strength and length is needed like under the floor or for a 12-16 foot wide roof i'm thinking of building something like ladder trusses which would break down into a 4x8 segments to fit in the pickup and then quickly assemble into something longer.  One reason i'm keen on that is it's a way to turn less expensive 2x4's or 2x3's into a longer support piece - thats not written in stone, just... brainstorming.  Offer alternatives if you've got good ones.  This is all about inexpensive and easy to DIY with limited woodworking skills not much beyond building utility shelving, and not expecting to afford much better equipment, trailers, or anything until after it's built.  (including fearing material/tool theft if I can't get the house built into a complete habitable unit fast enough)

One reason i'm wanting a "panel house" is the plan is to be able to DIS-assemble this later (back off the frame), the panels might be built onto a fixed land foundation (something like post/pier probably raised from the ground a bit) OR I could add more panels to make a larger structure reusing what I already have.  Modularity and the ability to disassemble/change things later is fairly important to me, because it's the only way I currently can think of to solve other problems.


I'm pretty sure the walls would go up like nothing, and the ceiling/roof i've been expecting to use a form of falsework so I can basically lift panels up to the roof and assemble them in place.  But first i'd need a proper floor...

So that made me have to ask what is the proper way to build a floor.  

By which I mean what kind of engineering loads am I designing it for, in terms of how it would tie into a metal frame (from the schoolbus/mobile home), what thickness bolts how far apart, through some kind of metal bracing on my ladder floor trusses so the bolts dont pull out...  i'm sure there's a science to this (and it's probably called 'housing code') i'm just looking for a simplified understanding of it.  My goal isn't to have a non-code compliant house by the end of everything, it's to put up a safe structure with minimum oversight and hassle to work as ultra-basic housing which I can repurpose the panels into a few outbuildings or something as soon as I no longer need to live in it.  Not knowing whether that will take 1 year or 4 years because life is unpredictable.

Revised.. a proper way to build a floor, that can break down into 4x8 panels or 8 foot long truss segments to fit my truck that I can prebuild offsite in a storage garage with power, then haul out and quickly assemble onto a metal frame that i've already placed on the land, since i'm not worried about an old vehicle frame getting stolen if that sits out there.



3 months ago
So I just can't stop thinking lately...

Thats probably good since i'm not perfectly happy with any of my other chosen solutions so far.  

I'll share in brief my thinking and needs so people know how I got here.

I plan to buy cheap land meaning uncleared and expect to be stuck living on a sliver of it near the road until I can save enough to clear a path back into it and a clearing for a longer term house construction.

I wanted a moveable house with the idea that once I have that path and driveway I can move that house back there, since it will be hard enough to save up for the driveway, well, septic install.  I've been looking at skiddable and rolling structures (on wheels or able to put onto wheels) lately.  Also the idea of wooden yurts since my understanding was that the sections were like pizza slices that were identically made (so easier to churn out) then assembled together into the final pizza, meaning individual pieces could be moved by normal pickup as theyre lighter.

Maybe I need to take the modularity further though since complete whole pizza wedges of house are still too heavy for 2-3 people to lift.  (and I dont mean 'modular housing' as in huge lego blocks)  Why not just make EVERYTHING from break down panels designed to be built offsite, stored like in a storage garage, all fittable in a 4x8 or so trailer/van/pickup bed, and then moved to the site for final assembly?  Which can also be DISassembled and moved, small segments at a time deeper inland (or even to a second site entirely if needed) then REassembled in the new place?

It could even have the advantage to be expandable later, maybe its 12x16 or 12x20 to start, and the next year I can extend it to 20x20 or 20x30 - I realize I can't really extend a yurt easily, the wedges are at fixed angles and it's rebuild from zero then the more I think about it.  But this I could.  If the panels are all standardized, and just tie to each other, I can reuse everything, build some more panels (for floor, walls, ceiling) and take it further.  That's even better if the third friend me and the lady have moves in with us later, because maybe we add a second bedroom then to avoid awkwardness without having to rebuild every darn thing or make a second entire structure immediately for him.  :^)

This would also be buildable with a minimum of hand power tools only, would greatly ease struggling to build at my final location (fearing theft of tools and timber if things simply left super-near the road easy to grab) because i'm assuming larger sections of sectional housing might be left alone better than just a stack of 4x8 sheet or 2x4's under tarps plus it should go up super fast.



Basically what i'm thinking is that every wall or roof panel would be 4x8 sheet size, most floor panels 4x8 size as well (plus one 4x4 to fit in the corner when the floor dimension doesnt divide by 8 ) - every panel insulated (either fiberglass bat or preferably styrofoam as it's better R-value and available used when they decommission walk in freezers but thats not available every week), and if there is either electrical conduit or water pipes in that particular wall panel it feeds from the top or the bottom.  (not sideways because I want the sections to more easily decommission)

The panels would tie to each other using 8 foot 2x4 studs top and bottom, i'm hoping that would be strong enough.  (if not please advise)  This is mostly for the simplicity of being able to just screw the studs into the panels to tie them together, and when i'm readying for decommission or expanding the house I can unscrew the studs, and the studs all move in the back of a pickup or van nicely same as the panels/no huge pieces to fight with.  I'd like the same 2x4's to tie together everything if possible - sections of wall, sections of floor, sections of ceiling.  The panels would have to be designed to allow a 2x4 in the right place to put things together of course.
   ** I'm not against using metal or something stronger if that is the best solution since it's not used everywhere, more important is deconstructability, reusability of parts, fitting in a normal pickup bed, fairly inexpensive cost, and decent insulation.  Not great just decent to start, a small house costs less to heat by size alone and rent savings will allow future upgrades.

I am aware this would use a little more wood than a normal house (less efficient use of material) but that's a minor tradeoff vs the flexibility, being able to "just get something up" this year and then expand next year, and the year after that.  If it happens even one month faster that could be $1000 saved to buy more materials, build more panels, etc.

The roof would just be the simplest flat insulated roof possible - styrofoam or foam batt again, planning to be either 16 feet or 24 feet of eventual size (two or three panels long)  Higher on one side to let rain run off one side is fine, and since asphalt shingles wont 'decommission' i'm considering using something like corrugated iron sheets (like in africa) where I could just unscrew things, pull it off as a sheet, and put it back on when the roof is reconstructed in a new location.  Those naturally overlap and should let rain and snow slide downhill, loud in a hailstorm i'm aware.

Specialized wall panels would provide doors and windows - 2 doors because for fire safety I want a second exit, and windows depending on how many secondhand usable windows I find.  A few other specialized panels as an interior wall providing a common wall for a kitchen area on one side and bathroom/laundry on the other.


I  have other ideas to add but i'll let people critique and comment.  I can't think of any reason it wouldn't work so i'm asking for advice to point out my flaws.  I would not expect this to pass normal housing code so we'll call it a utility camping land retreat - the option to place the floor segments atop a stripped mobile home frame, to forcibly change the housing code jurisdiction away from state to federal, or sticking it on the back of a schoolbus ladder frame if not too wide while calling it a travel trailer - even though it's unlikely to be driven again - is also there.
7 months ago

John C Daley wrote:Brian, would you like to talk about you college syudy and what you hope to gain with it?
It sounds interesting the way you are moving around to complete it.



Short version - acupuncture and chinese herbs.  It's not just about having an income but also about helping people.  I'm determined to learn this even if I end up moving and staying in a more rural area after learning in the big city, because everyone needs medical care sooner or later and i've seen this save lives.  I've seen it treat appendicitis twice, a practitioner I know used it to turn a breech baby when someone couldn't be rushed to normal medical care, I watched it treat 'covid19' because doctors I was talking to literally were talking to doctors in china successfully using it to treat people there when it first broke out, it's got answers that western medicine at times doesn't have, or when it isn't available, or when you can't get to it in time.

There's no point moving out into a rural area and being one of those "Forced to sell - medical issues" prepper types that i've seen over and over and over set up the perfect away-from-everyone retreat and once theyre in retirement age, guess what?  They're in assisted living or a nursing home, because theyre too messed up to stay at home.  They may not need round the clock medical care, in a rural area in a community people can help each other to make up some of those needs, but everyone gets infections, gets farming injuries, eventually has to manage some chronic condition even if not forever but until you can get off the pills, and i've seen this do miracle after miracle after miracle WHEN done by the most competent people.  (which is not the average acupuncturist, and certainly not the person saying "we do chiropractic AND acupuncture!" when chiros can hang that shingle after 150 hours training and TCM doctors need 3000 hours training, it's not even in the same league what i'm talking about)


If it's ONLY money I could do other things but i'm determined to learn this including because it's the only thing that ever helped a number of health conditions ive dealt with over the years which even other alternative medicine practices could not help.  I just don't want my lady having to live in an urban warzone while I try to finish out grad school.  :-/  I also don't want her so far away that I can't visit her 2-3 times a month or i'll go batty.

So just being super rural and poor and doing some online income whatever wont really cut it.
7 months ago
[edit] Realized I need to clarify something - by yurt i'm referring to a pizza slice modular form of construction rather than a tent roof which I can't insulate, I would be planning segments of wood structure for floor-walls-ceiling as long as that still counts as a yurt.  Even if due to modularity it might have some additional soft sided tarp or something over all of it to make it more weatherproof.

I need a Moveable House.

I'm not sure if this belongs in nomadic housing but it's the closest topic and someone else mentioned yurts.  I need a house that absolutely will be moved at least once, and might be moved another 2-6 times or so over it's hopefully multi decade life.

I've been looking at skiddable structures and houses on wheels (including building your own house atop a mobile frame) but maybe what I really need...is a yurt?  


First let me make sure I understand things right because i'm by no means an expert:
  - yurts are modular, meaning you build them in segments, like slices of a pizza, then you bring all the slices together and connect them to make a single enclosed space inside
  - they are designed to be deconstructable again, meaning I would be able to move them as much smaller and more easily handled segments/pizza slices instead of the nightmare of trying to haul 8+ tons of house anywhere
  - being round radiant heat from a central fireplace is a big plus, I live in minnesota and this is one reason that most used mobile homes will suck, and that most travel trailers/campers/RV's will not be acceptable because they are designed to be three season.  (or things like Arctic Fox campers are alot more expensive even used because it's more of a special use - they're also too small)

Other thoughts I have
  - Original yurts are probably much more portable and lightweight than i'd be making out of wood framing but I need something to last for 20+ years if I can too, are there other design features of original yurts beyond the basics though?
  - I only have a 1/2 ton pickup and a 4x8 folding flatbed trailer right now.  Eventually I would like to have a big diesel or HD chassis truck with a hotshot flatbed for hauling, but those cost money and not trivial money.
  - I should be able to design or build segments that could be moved entirely within an open fullsize pickup bed, or on my folding trailer (or both/moving two segments per trip) as long as the weight is not excessive per segment.
  - I'm guessing something maybe 16-20 feet wide could be made as a yurt while still having pickup haulable 'pizza slices' maybe 1000-1500lbs at most each?  I dont know if there is any rule for how many slices/degrees per slice would or should be done but i'd be limited by the width of the pickup bed or about 5 feet I assume.  (plus my folding trailer is 4ft wide but its flat and only the tires limit the width/propping the rear of a slice up wouldn't be the end of the world)


My thinking has led me to think a yurt might be the best option under the circumstances, instead of some of the other plans i've publically posted over the last year or two.  Can you think of any alternatives?  Or other comparable ideas? (other modular housing of some sort that would also be pickup haulable for instance, or is there some kind of 'break down' housing I could disassemble into panels and reassemble maybe... I don't know, just thinking out loud here)
7 months ago

Jay Angler wrote:I have acquaintances who lived in a yurt. It was major work building a platform for it to sit on, and they had to do so twice as the first platform wasn't built in a way that it could be disassembled when they needed to move their yurt.

Yurts were designed for a specific climate. Consider the climate you decide to build in, and then decide the best materials to choose for the build.

Yurts were traditionally designed with a lot of outdoor living being part of the equation. That worked for my acquaintances, although they also got a car shelter for covered area for many tasks, as we live in a very wet climate all winter. Car shelters are very temporary structures due to both solar degradation and lately, our wet snow.  It becomes a cost/benefit/longevity balance.



Cost/benefit/longevity is literally 100% of my ever changing analysis.  I don't have the money to properly do anything anymore and I will be started with either limited access to things like any heavier equipment (although I eventually hope to build or own some) or finding commercial rates to rent and have equipment towed out to a rural area eating up too much of my budget.

I've learned the only thing I can do is stair steps, and as my understanding changes my plans change.  Something I wasn't aware of that could lower the barrier to entry even further, giving me 4 steps instead of two and a really low first step, etc.  The first step is just not paying rent in the city because $1000+ a month adds up and can pay for alot.  Keeping sanity is the second step because poverty wears you down in many ways - not feeling safe in the city (the place of minneapolis i'll be moving to next year there are gangs who openly in broad daylight shoot at people of my skin color and yet i'm going to have nowhere else to go if I want to continue college right now because rent elsewhere nearly doubled in the last 3 years), living in conditions you know are unhealthy (black mold issues where i'm staying now), but narrow small rooms where there's never enough room for anything also wear on you over multiple years.


I'm wanting to use something like those car shelters as a workshop, not one per se, but any of those buildings that are a soft sided tarp-like covering on a metal frame.  Legally they count as temporary buildings under property tax (reducing another burden) and i'd hope to repurpose it in the future but i've always been curious how long they can last.  Not a fan of a material so weak you could cut through with a bowie knife though i'll admit if i'm going to have power tools and such in there, I might need a separate storage something-or-other.


7 months ago
I could quote specific news items triggering my rant but nearly any news item qualifies anymore.  

One post here about someone being sick in their homestead did trigger it though, as did a response "Yeah, I get tired of telling all the people who want to live alone with no support network, that getting ill or breaking a necessary bone, or even just needing to get to a hospital when you can't drive (or bike) yourself is a problem. If your outhouse doesn't have grab bars and a very secure path to it, now might be the time to consider remedying that!"


So an open rant for anyone listening.  Maybe i'll say something useful to one of you or maybe you'll just get a better insight into my headspace if you read far enough.  I debated whether to post it but hopefully it's useful to someone and I doubt i'm the only one thinking thoughts like this with how our world is going.


If you know what a Venn diagram is, it's those circles where things overlap but not exactly.  Permaculture is one thing, something like Prepping is a term that has some overlap (but not exactly) yet is probably of interest to people here, but so is Rural Living.  Most of this stuff is hard to do in the city, is hard to do where everyone can see your front door.

Yet it's hard to live alone.

Are you a prepper?  No I dont mean food and firearms, have you ever prepped for if you might become disabled?  Imagined what it would be like if you got maybe a welding UV injury to your eyes and you were temporarily blind for several days?  Could you navigate around your house and still cook some food, do some laundry for yourself to get dressed later, find the phone to call a neighbor if you hear a prowler outside?

What if you broke a leg and it takes months to heal, are you going to be chopping wood all winter then?  Can you get up the stairs in your split level?  Do you regret ever HAVING a split level now that you're healing? (ask me why I now hate split-levels, go on ask me) Will it be easy to hand stoke that money saving stove that's not fed by a machine cuz you wanted simple and lasts a century pioneer style?


Are you prepared for serious financial upheaval in the outside world?  What if your property tax triples because the local or state government is trying to drive you out of the area, or your house insurance company first quadruples your forest fire insurance and then wont insure your house at all, and now you can't even sell it for what you got in it because its uninsurable in a fire zone?

Did you build decades or even multigenerational family and friend ties in your rural neighbors, but then because of something you didn't plan or want, were forced to move and have to start over new friendships and neighbors where nobody knows you and nobody will come to your aid for years to come?

It can be hard, can't it?  : P


I'm not trying to be depressive, or morbid, or give anyone a gut punch...  to me this is just a rant about what I think people really want, and need, and how some of my own trauma has affected my own perceptions of "what I thought was smart" in terms of a social investment.  I've been forced to start over life in several ways finding out I was less than fully physically able, financial savings stolen by people I trusted whose lives I previously saved, leaving neighborhoods and networks where I had social support, and fate chance and circumstance is forcing me to find out none of the things that were sure in my head were sure at all and now I have to re-evaluate life.


To me it's clear intentional community is one of the answers because we need people like us who can support us in mutual aid when things aren't going quite as planned.  The problem is always who can we trust that much, who is really like us (can be hard for someone not the majority religion or denomination to find close connections sometimes for instance, let alone political disagreements) and people needing the freedom to come and go if things aren't working out for them.

What am I really saying here?  I guess it's something i've said already in similar fashion in another post or two before.  There are answers for the PHYSICAL problems here at permies - all kinds of ways of working with instead of against nature, growing food high density per acre, far greater energy efficiency with less pollution and waste, alternative building methods with many advantages including cost.  That's why i'm here - I don't know those solutions, others are way ahead of me, and i'm fascinated by this stuff - I need to integrate it into future plans, no question.  I also know I don't have full time to learn and impliment it all because i'm a product of a modern society where i'm trying to get a good paying degree which will keep me not too far from the city.  Even if I wanted to leave the city I couldn't - I need at least alternative medical services, access to markets I generally only find in a large city, and similar things that I think some people are delusional to believe they will never again need even if I share the desire for "getting away from it all".  Yet often you can't.  A few visits to the emergency room usually clears that up.


Our biggest world problems are not lacking physical solutions - these boards are full of physical solutions.  To me it seems our biggest problems remain political (on the big scale), social, and economic.  Even the threads where were talking about crimeproofing and theftproofing that's a social problem from people in govt not doing their jobs but now we increasingly pay the cost.  Things are changing and not in a good way and we have to adapt.


IN THE WORLD OF THE NEAR FUTURE I see no alternative but some kind of intentional community as being an almost necessary goal for most people, stronger neighborhoods if youre stuck in one, realizing that were going from a high trust society to a low trust society and i'm not sure quite how to reverse it or how long it would take even started immediately.  Some discussions were had in my crimeproofing thread about how things are in places like south america or africa - we seem to be going in that direction and being like that in the outer world and people treating security as a collective responsibility to share as a necessity.

I'm trying to figure out ways to survive without that - at the start - but I recognize ending up like that is the goal, and if I had any life advice to give anyone it would be to move in that direction wherever you are because it seems inevitable.


IN THE WORLD OF THE NEAR FUTURE I see a need to be in rural-ish areas where you can grow your own food, where youre not on the immediate evacuation corridor in event of some large bad event in the nearest large city (ie the swath of crime that followed Hurricane Katrina as an example), where youre not within convenient range of serious social unrest ending up in your backyard.

Rural-ish - but not too far away from a large city because you just might need a Tier 1 Trauma Hospital to save life or limb within the golden hour.  Do you know the difference of the Tiers 1 through 5?  Have you ever wondered whether an ambulance can even get down your rural road or navigate to your plot of land that you picked off an unmarked road for security reasons?  Any clue whether you are in the flying radius of an AIR ambulance and where a medical helicopter would land on your property if they couldn't drive you there in time?  They can apparently land in about a 75 by 75 foot open area which could include a field of cut wildgrass or with snow plowed off in winter and some lighting so they know they aren't getting tangled in wires or your ham radio antennas in the dark.  Am I too paranoid thinking about this?  This is how you think when you've had more than one near death experience and multiple life threatening traumas in your life.


Even just for alternative medical care I couldn't be too far from the big city - you might find an acupuncturist but not necessarily a good one in small to medium sized communities unless there's a chinese immigrant population or something.  Chiropractors?  They are everywhere, but can you find Gonstead chiros, the gold standard?  There are some other alternative therapies and modalities that you can travel for because you only need them infrequently, but anything you might need frequently if it's not offered in your nearest decent sized city makes life really hard.  I had to drive 500 miles a week for multiple years to get weekly care I couldn't get where I lived for problems no western doctor could do anything for - it wears you out.


Are these really permaculture topics?  I think yes - permaculture of sustainable health and wellness.  Of community health and wellness, social support, living in a group of people you can trust who help each other out.  This matters more and more as you get older, or if you have any kind of permanent medical condition, or even an extended healing period to recover from something.  I just had a surgery that a month ago I didn't know i'd need and I can't lift more than 10 pounds for a month and more than 20 for several months now.  All plans to do certain work before it got too cold just got sh__canned the whole winter and i'm set back months.  Nobody is available to help me besides my GF I mean, and there wasn't the last few times this happened either, it's how I got this far set back in the first place.


Is talking about prepping type topics related to permaculture?  It can be, maybe we need new terms.  Resilent intentional communities?  It overlaps in my mind.  Everything overlaps.  Prepping-type things.  Where the hospitals are and ambulance radius services out of the big city.  Handicapped or/and assistive technology so I wouldn't have to abandon a rural living dream and go spend later years right back in what I was trying to get away from in the first place.  Access to markets not just to buy but sell - the kind of work i'd like to do for others sells better in a big city than some tiny small one.  Alternative health.  Keeping an eye out for people I might want to build an intentional community with long term, as well as networks of people of like mind I could drop in on or visit while traveling.  I think in the not-far-off future were increasingly going to need it as society continues to devolve.  Permaculture answers for food and energy are important but so are increasing insights into building functional communities, alternative health, and mutual aid networks.

Rural living in an off grid house with no bills is what i've ALWAYS wanted, but i've had to make both compromises, and expansions, reconsiderations, reinterpretations, and reanalysis of the plans in my head of what I thought it would be.  I've heard of people who "ran to the country" whether as a retirement plan or a survivalist fantasy and ten years later ran out of money or needed medical care or realized they had no good neighbors and were right back in the city they came from alot poorer, their retreat for sale at a discount.  I originally thought i'd have about 80k to get to a rural retreat, and then had to cut down to 50k, then 40k, then 30k, and now it's looking maybe I wont have much over 20k to start and I hope still that to do anything.  Trying to get land and have something to live in for 20k in the modern world without being in the middle of absolute nowhere is pretty darn hard.

Yet there are good things that only come from cities of a given size that I don't want to be too far away from, I just want to limit the bad things from the city while still being able to access the good things as much as possible.  I find myself wanting to expand conversations in directions that I suspect... are beyond the norm on this board, because when I put out feelers I seem to be... how should I say... maybe a bit extreme?  Because i've had all this trauma and bad stuff in my life happen showing me how many ways things can go wrong and I almost overcompensate trying to think my way into preventing it from going that way ever again.


The only thing that I think is a given is that although I hope my own personal life and world to finally hopefully start getting better once I go rural, because financial issues are the lifeblood of one's ability to do anything at all in this society, I am expecting the outside world over the next 1-3 decades to have more and more difficulty and challenges.  Even if I were rich that only solves some things, it can't buy good neighbors (I mean neighbors who if the power is out and the looting was out, would be checking on you if you're on crutches and keeping an eye on people who don't belong in the neighborhood), it can't buy services that aren't within convenient distance of your community, it can't buy products that are not for sale because of social unrest or lack of production, all the problems outside of money are potentially getting WORSE in our world and seem to require better and better thought out answers.  People with 10-100x the money that I have for their own rural retreat have in some cases painted themselves into corners they can't readily back out of because their thinking was not as advanced as their ability to write checks and hire people to do certain jobs.

So i'm sharing this to see who else is pushing thinking this far.  It's like Paul has his ten levels of where people go from thinking youre smart to wierd with permaculture, sometimes I feel like i'm somewhere between level 4 and 10 in a number of related overlapping areas that in my mind are related to permaculture yet i'll bet even most permaculture fanatics are probably in the first 1-3 levels of some of those related topics.  To those who aren't and who actually read this super long rant this far feel free to comment or reach out.  Sometimes I feel a bit crazy with some of the trauma i've had that's led to this point, but i'm motivated by love and a desire to not have it go to waste or fail to be a learning experience.  So many negative things that I see in the world seem preventable if people were to think, plan and act with greater insight and understanding.
10 months ago

Joe Hallmark wrote:Roofing is not expensive for a cabin. Building trusses out of 2x4 is easy and cheap. Assuming we are talking cabin size and not a house. Painted metal roofing is about 2.15 a foot for 3 ft wide sheets well 3’ when you put overlap. Plain is maybe .20c cheaper. And foundation is cheap for that too. Small buildings dong need huge rafters or footing. Then a few concrete blocks.

How large do you want this temp building?



I was wanting something like 20ft wide by 30ft long for an A-frame since less than 600sq ft I might as well just live in a sealand container or semi truck trailer and more doesnt count as a tiny house.  Remember this is meant for 3 people and at that width you also have room for a half height loft for sleeping.  Honestly if I don't mind a 7.5 foot wide room (after 6in insulation on each side) that's faster just being container/trailer and might well be my first up temporary house until I get the A-frame built.  The A-frame is meant to be what i'd consider the first liveable size and for when the narrow room starts to get to me - maybe even start at 20x20 feet instead and later stretch to 20x30 or 20x40 ultimately.  It's about the width where some kind of crane seems necessary for roofing and some kind of foundation below frost heave seems necessary, and where working without scaffolding seems real difficult.  Those are all extra expenses you can avoid with an A-frame.

I've seen too many people build truly tiny houses and go a bit batty after a few years realizing too tiny is too tiny.  600sq ft I think I could live in a decade or more Walden style and not feel cramped - foundations and roofs for that on a cube shaped building dont' have to be "expensive" but they arent as cheap as the stick built walls or something like rammed earth walls or earthbag walls or if you have free straw strawbale walls.  But all those alternative building methods with free or near free walls still end up needing some kind of roof and some kind of foundation whose extra cost more than offsets the money saved by 'free' walls in all the other designs i've looked at, often costing more than a normal stick built house somehow by the end of it.


Joe Hallmark wrote:What is plan to get out of current house?



The moment i'm medically stable in a sustainable way we can leave the city because going from a house to an apartment in the city isn't an improvement of condition tho it will free up equity and let us figure out where we are financially.  Meanwhile i'm chipping away at college classes I need to take anyways.
10 months ago