Caitlyn Pierce

I'd value a spiffy link as well!

Ben Zumeta wrote:I know the reasons to go big, but I think a seven foot minimum is a bit excessive. I have built thousands of square feet of hugel, and in a place with almost no summer rain for 4-6months. I think the tallest is 7ft from the bottom of the path that the base soil came from, but that was with an excavator. Going taller than 4-5ft almost requires heavy equipment to be safe and efficient. The work it takes to keep going up beyond 4-5ft with wheel barrows and people with hand tools is not entirely safe (I work with high school and college interns as well as little kids and retiree volunteers that I feel obligated to keep safe), and that same work could get 2-3x as much volume of shorter hugels in. If you have the space, I’d go out before going up above 5ft in this climate. I have seen my 4ft hugels go unwatered all summer (though it’s not very hot here) and have happy trees and perennials. I do have humus catchment basins filled with woody debris and chips for paths around them, so that adds 1.5ft to their effective height, but still I think a 7ft minimum is not necessary, discourages people from trying hugelkulture, and can be unsafe if the job is done by hand without careful staging. I love the badge bit idea and thank all those working on the PEP programs, this is just my two cents on an aspect of permaculture I have spent several years working on and observing.

I read this comment a few weeks ago and honestly had no idea how realistic this is, since I'd never made a hugelkulture  before. At the end of last night  I was by myself in the dark hand-packing and NOT in a pleasant mood and completely regretting the time put in that the mobile home park may now make us take down. I am going to take this advise deeply to heart and know that we can do this, much more quickly, and with still good results, at less height, outside of PEP badges. On my own I would never ever attempt this again. Thank you  for adding this comment here, because it really gives me encouragement.

I looked over The 22 Aspects of PEP, original post by Nicole. We started our hugelkulture experience a week and a half ago, when my husband and 16 year old started collecting fallen and decomposing logs and trees. That alone took them 5 ish hours to collect what we thought would help us get to 7 feet tall. They aren't slow workers.
Saturday, we started actually building. We are in a mobile home park, so we *had* to dig down, to not have it so tall and them tell us to take it down (and yes, we told them what we are doing, they okayed it, but I am still nervous they didn't understand). We don't have the money to rent anything big to make it go faster, but even seeing how this went towards the end I know a big piece of equipment  would not have quickened the end aspect much at all.

Looking at this information on The 22 Aspects thread and elsewhere, each sand badge is supposed to be 5 hours for an average *individual* to complete, so getting 16 badges to complete PEP1 should theoretically  take a *person* 80 hours to do themselves. Am I understanding  that correctly? I've looked at all of the other badges and they look attainable in 5 hours for one person  to do, between all the badge bits.
Not only did my husband and 16 year old work about 10 hours each, Saturday, they also worked about 10 hours each on Sunday. I helped about 8 hours each of those days. I would have worked more, but I have a 4 month old that needs nursing and more care than my 2, 4, and 6 year olds... who also helped for about 6 hours Saturday and 4 hours Sunday.
And our hugelkulture is still not even fully covered. I have more to do today, much more slowly because I have blood blisters on both my hands now. {laughs}
I cannot see how this is, even with larger equipement, attainable in 5 hours for 1 person  to do. Even had the logs been right next to the hole, cut to size, and we had a backhoe. The pile is massive.
Pictures to come when we have everything planted, if the mobile home park did completely  understand  us and let's us keep this beast up. :)
I'm not sure someone who wants to verify to an Otis or a farmer (to be hired on) will have their own land to do this, in most situations, which makes the very first badge of this seem very unattainable for people to mete out and verify they can do this. I am still hoping the park let's us keep this up to get to planting stage... otherwise all the work, while valuable  learning for  ourselves, leaves us screwed about where to plant the seedlings I started and feels like a financial waste. My husband works 60 hours a week at his job, so the cost of time on weekends is very valuable to us, if we have to take this down and then spend even more time on a 'suitable' garden  according to the park, I don't know if we'll have time to do it before the plants NEEDS to be planted outside.

I question if a sand badge is more like starting X-number of variety of seeds yourself and not using any pesticides (though I don't know how the latter could be verified) and using the Ruth Stout method, as well as the chop and drop.... we haven't even started the chop and drop yet. That looks easily attainable in a couple hours. Our family of 7 will quickly make 10gal of compost to add to the hugelkulture, as well.
Just some thoughts after doing this one, though it's obviously PEPaul. :D

As to the difference between thread and wikis, I am totally lost here. I mean, I know what a wiki is, but I don't understand the difference in context within Permies. Is there a thread someone can direct me to about that so I can understand it? Thank you. I don't want to hijack the thread about that.

Nicole Alderman wrote:Having done a few badge bits, and rather lost track of the ones I've done, I'm thinking this is a good idea. I'm not sure if we want it in the PEP forum, or if we'll end up with enough people doing it to make it it's own PEP Records (or some other, better name) Forum.... Probably start the thread in the PEP Forum, and if we get enough such threads, we make them their own forum.

It just occurred to me, as well, that by keeping an individual's BBs in their own thread, it would enable staff, etc, to note that possibly one project encompassed more than one BB, and note it in-thread, rather than having to add the same information to a different thread.

We use Ambleside Online completely, so the science is extremely rigorous, as are all the other aspects of the free curriculum. It begins with nature study for several years and advances through to more in-depth experimentation and deeper books on a wide variety of the sciences. It helps me a lot, to avoid decision fatigue, to utilize the curriculum while holding to the Charlotte Mason philosophy.

I hope this is the correct thread to post this question/train of thought in. (ETA: please tell me where to post it, if this is not the correct placement!)
I know that for some, PEP will be merely a way to guide and ensure they begin learning a series of things they have always wanted to learn, but perhaps did not know where to begin. They desire this for their own sense of knowing and doing on their own land.
Others are looking for an "Otis," searching for land, to show they are "worthy" of it (for lack of a better word).
And others, still, are looking for a working situation to apprentice under a current land-owner, and will perhaps use this as a way to show they are able to follow instructions and can learn new information, adapt to new input etc.

Being mindful of "Otis," who is typically older and probably adept enough to get online, but perhaps not savvy, I have pondered if keeping track of a person's BBs would be useful in individual's threads for taking part in PEP. Such as "Caitlyn's PEP Badge Bit Thread." The reason I have pondered this is so that one could reference an interested Otis to one thread, rather than 16-22 threads for them to hunt through and possibly become frustrated and give up searching (I know several elders that would be overwhelmed to do so)?  If they can be referenced to that individual's BB thread, they can quickly look through all of the individual's work they are possibly interested in willing land to or, in the case of a farm hand, hiring.

I hope I made sense and that I don't step on any toes. I am totally new here and don't want to upset anyone. Just tossing some thoughts out that I have been mulling over, as we decide what avenue we would like to take to try to get out of a mobile home park!

Mike Jay wrote:I'm hoping a bunch of people can get there BBs for cooking done during this event

I'm flying into Missoula so I can't pack a lot of meat with me.  Erica, I love your idea of bringing extra and I can pay for my consumption.  I don't eat tons of meat but every day or two is nice.

We still aren't quite sure how my husband is getting there. If flying, that is my concern, too, that he wouldn't really be able to take any food with him. If driving, I can stock him up and he can share.

This was a week ago. Are there still spots left? I am scrambling to help my husband find a way out there for cheap/quick. We would LOVE for him to take part in this with all of you.

Glenn Herbert wrote:For permanent installations I would avoid the pebble style; however for the lighter possibly temporary situation you face, it might be a reasonable choice.

I did see on one of Matt's videos that these can be put into trailers IF they would be there a year or more and deconstructed (more laboriously) than the pebble style.

I am also contemplating that with a pebble style, it looks VERY difficult to get a full size oven and a stovetop (in use at the same time), while Matt's is already set up for exactly all three needs at once, even though it is not as lightweight. I do have a friend that can gift us a stovetop for Matt's design, if that's what we end up going with.
Thank you so much for your time, patience, and wise contributions, Glenn! I am learning a lot and willing to learn more. Thank you!

About the support - that will need to be balanced on the other side of the mobile home from the RMH, right? So that it's not unbalanced within the flooring supports?

Thank you everyone for helping a newbie with a willingness to learn and a lot of questions, even if she is limited on researching time!