Peter Chauffeur

Hello Fellow Permies!  Great News up here in the Canadian PNW!  

“Frankenstove 6” has begun fabrication. I have been given the Grace of my Wonderful Wife Patti to shift some of the items on the Home Job List and I will be posting the progress of the build as I go!  I will try to keep the construction simple by using basic tools such as a drill, grinder, welder and hand tools. This project will use extensive welding to create a Vertical Thermal Mass Rocket Stove that will be used in an 8’x12’ greenhouse that is built over a 8’ diameter aquaponic pond to grow food like lettuce kale and arugula.
The main materials will be one 100 lb propane cylinder, one 30 pound cylinder, some square tubing, ceramic tubing and refractory cement and an aluminum toolbox! Yes! This will have the general look of the F5, but much more compact to fit in the greenhouse. Of course, it will be wood pellet fed and of course, not require any electricity to operate. I know my design strays wildly from the grassroots style of rocket mass heaters on this sight but it’s design may inspire others to push the envelope when the decide to build ther own!  I should also like to continue with the 4” diameter riser that has operated in Frankenstove Models 3, 4, and our current operational Frankenstove 5. So without further ado, here are some pictures of the start of the build. Stay tuned, be safe, be warm, be Kind!

Hello Fellow Permies!  
Here are the photos of the Frankenstove Mark 2 Autopsy I recently performed as promised... Finally figured out the picture attachment issue!  Yay!

The first photo shows the retired Frankenstove Mark 2. I did some work on the pellet feed and it proved I needed a larger opening for higher output temperatures.
Photo 2 shows all the parts that were in the refractory matrix
Photo 3 shows the split of the Vertical RMH where the horizontal burn chamber meets the vertical metal riser insulated with refractory.
Photo 4 shows an attempt to dig thru the refractory material which had the consistency of concrete!
Photo 5 shows the blast damage from the horizontal flame meets the 90* transition to the vertical riser! The intense heat burned a hole right thru the cast iron pan! Fortunately the refractory poured behind the pan and maintained the integrity of the heat shield to divert the flame vertically!
Now that you can see what I am talking about, you can see that metal has no place in the vertical riser in the world of RMHs! The extremely high temperatures cause severe spalling of the metal to failure and causing a major inconvenience to replace the "innards" of your stove.
I really hope that any newbie comes across this thread will research better riser materials in their build seeing proof that metal risers are a bad idea.
The Frankenstove Mark 2 lasted a few years heating a 2000 square foot home using wood pellets without issues; other than burning out pellet baskets. So, I still struggling to build the ultimate pellet basket that works without burning itself up.  The Frankenstove Mark 5 has improved on this issue and the lessons learned will be relayed to the development of the Frankenstove 6, which will be built to heat an aquaponic greenhouse.
Stay tuned as Frankenstove 6 is under design build and I am optimistic to share the build with all y'all.
peace health and happiness!
Peter Chauffeur

Hello Fellow Permies!

A long time ago in the Frankenstove Vertical RMH franchise, I promised the forum that I would perform an "Autopsy of the Frankenstove 2" In true Canadian fashion, I apologize for the extreme wait. With Frankenstove 6 on the drawing board to heat an aquaponics greenhouse, I feel that it is important to visit the "teardown - destructive " take apart of Frankenstove to make F6 (Frankenstove 6)  benchmark build so many of you interested in building your own have some guidance of building my version of these amazing stoves.
I am trying to attach photos so you can see how the intense heat affected "F2" but it seems my tech savvy is not letting that happen. So, I will explain in text.
Here is what I noticed in the teardown,
1) The refractory material recipe worked perfectly and held up to the heat without issue.  It cured to a solid, difficult to dig out of the metal housing. This is encouraging as there is the possibility to make a solid core riser without having to use the factory made ceramic tubes if you choose.  I have some spare 4" diameter ceramic cores so F6 will utilize them in the new build
2) The metal internals were severely damaged due to extreme heat stress and thermal cycling basically destroyed the metal riser causing a crack where the weld was on the pipe. F6 will redesign the horizontal burn tube to host a 4" ceramic tube and avoid as much metal in the burn zone as possible. This will include the redesign of the Wood Pellet Feed System and corresponding pellet ash retrieval system.
3) The bell  was relatively clean and very little fly ash was in it after years of use. F6 will be designed where the bell housing will be removeable for inspection.
4) The cast iron pan used as a deflection wall to direct the flames up the riser had a 3"hole where the combustion flame met it and fortunately the refractory held up with little to no damage. Obviously, once again the thought of using any type of metal in the riser / combustion area is not a great idea and will, in time will fail and need reworking.

Again, my apologies for not being able to post any pics

Hi,
this build is on Vancouver Island. This was my first build over a decade ago. Since then, I have built 4 more and I have documented all of them here on one thread ending with Frankenstove 5, with an announcement of a Frankenstove 6 to heat an heat an aquaponics greenhouse.
Currently Frankenstove 5 heats our home and hot tub, Frankenstove 3 heats my shed and 4 will be dismantled and repurposed  with a post mortem and be part of the Frankeknstove 6 project.
I have only one main thread on this site so everyone could make sense of the progression of the evolution of the Franklenstove franchise builds.
All posted under "Peter Chauffeur" under the rocket stoves forum

Stay tuned, learn from my mistakes and I'm always up for suggestions from this site and its kind people.

my first mistake with rocket stoves was thinking high temperature metal risers would work!

Experience is a horrible teacher.......First she tests - then she teaches!

Rudy Mallonee wrote: Hi--- New to the site..
Relating to full home heating with the rocket stove...

Having read the first few pages, I didn't come upon anything regarding using a typical forced air furnace air to air heat exchanger in conjuction with the rocket mass heater.. Has anyone addressed this?

Couldn't this type of air to air heat exchanger be connected to the exhaust end of the chimmey? The rocket stove wood heat should be no different than gas or oil fire that is directed through the exchanger provided that a sufficient distance from the chimmey is allowed to prevent extreme heating of the exchanger....Yes, the fan system is needed to propel the hot air throughout the house duct system nornally used with a forced air system....
These furnaces (used) can be bought through Craigslist very cheap, I've seen some in my area (Alaska) that are given away..

Also, for a radiant water system, why not use the same principle using the boiler exchanger, expansion tank and pumps from a conventional gas or oil fired home heating water boiler? .. Just direct the flue gases from the rocket stove to the boiler chamber at safe distance from the exchanger.....
Again there are older used boilers out there for sale cheap....Weil-McLain, etc.... and use the same radiant floor system with the PEX tubing... The PEX tubing eliminates the hard water deposits in piping....
Yes, there would have to be a heat sink, hot tub, etc..... or a steam pipe vented to an outside exit with a pressure relief valve and tempering valve at the expansion tank exit before entering the PEX manifold, eliminating pressure in the PEX piping and keeping temperature down....

Here is my “Frankenstove Mark 5” that I built from what I’ve learned here on Permies.com and documented in forums under “ Peter Chauffeur “. Enjoy the read

Anthony Donner wrote: I am looking into building a stove or rocket stove that is efficient and safe to use in my huge 2500sq ft home, not a mass heater but a furnace type unit.... was thinking of building the burn chamber and riser with a 6" refractory cast core, using the 55 gal drum style unit for the heat exchanger, build a sheet metal box around the heat exchanger and hook up a blower to this box to circulate the hot air through my ductwork, just like a regular furnace style setup, I want this to be a pellet gravity fed unit, was thinking of making the pellet basket or grate out of refractory metals and any area that gets extremely hot also, this unit would be set up in my basement and be hooked up to my masonry chimney which is approximately 20-30 feet tall , I want to build this unit to be very durable and safe (meaning I don't have to take it apart and rebuild it every year like some of the units I have seen on youtube or is going to fall apart in a short time). instead of buying a normal furnace that is on the market for 2-3 thousand dollars why not just build a efficient safe rocket stove with that money....instead of building junk or ones that wont hold up and nickel and diming yourself to death..... I am new to this concept so any solid input would be greatly appreciated...
any suggestions ideas or concerns...feel free to let them be known...
thanks

I will try to make this short and painful for your design proposal….. metal risers will spall. Here are the pictures

Peter Chauffeur wrote:

Peter Pis wrote:Hello,

i am working on my first RMH and am wondering about the temperatures inside.

I found information that temperatures inside the core can go up to 1000*C. But what about other parts of the heater ?
- what is typical max temperature at the top of the primary bell ?
- what is typical max temperature at the bottom of the primary bell (floor) ?
- what is typical max temperature at the top/bottom of secondary bell (bench) ?
- i found information that chimney temperature will usually go between 60-100*C
the reason i am asking is so i can better choose the materials:
- to isolate the floor. the heater will be build in the room with concrete floor, i don't want the heat escaping into it, so i want to build a proper insulation layer below the heater.  I saw how perlite can be used but i am worried about building on top of loose perlite so i would prefer to use something load bearing. I was thinking about using YTONG blocks covered by a layer of concrete made out of cement and perlite.
- to isolate the back wall of the heater and bench which is going to be build against the wall stone of the room. I was thinking about double skin bricks with a layer of ceramic wool in between them. I don't like it so much as there is still one layer of bricks absorbing the heat there. I was thining about using ytong blocks instead of bricks for the back wall of the bench, still doing double skin with ceramic wool in between. ytong blocks are ok up to 600*C, so i want to be sure temperatures inside my bench are not going to reach that level. I am wondering if i could do the same for the back wall of the primary bell ?

any other suggestions on how to insulate the floor and back wall ?

thank you.

Here are some pictures og what I’ve noticed on my “Frankenstove Mark 5” gravity pellet fed vertical rocket mass heater with a 4” ceramic core.

Peter Pis wrote:Hello,

i am working on my first RMH and am wondering about the temperatures inside.

I found information that temperatures inside the core can go up to 1000*C. But what about other parts of the heater ?
- what is typical max temperature at the top of the primary bell ?
- what is typical max temperature at the bottom of the primary bell (floor) ?
- what is typical max temperature at the top/bottom of secondary bell (bench) ?
- i found information that chimney temperature will usually go between 60-100*C

the reason i am asking is so i can better choose the materials:
- to isolate the floor. the heater will be build in the room with concrete floor, i don't want the heat escaping into it, so i want to build a proper insulation layer below the heater.  I saw how perlite can be used but i am worried about building on top of loose perlite so i would prefer to use something load bearing. I was thinking about using YTONG blocks covered by a layer of concrete made out of cement and perlite.
- to isolate the back wall of the heater and bench which is going to be build against the wall stone of the room. I was thinking about double skin bricks with a layer of ceramic wool in between them. I don't like it so much as there is still one layer of bricks absorbing the heat there. I was thining about using ytong blocks instead of bricks for the back wall of the bench, still doing double skin with ceramic wool in between. ytong blocks are ok up to 600*C, so i want to be sure temperatures inside my bench are not going to reach that level. I am wondering if i could do the same for the back wall of the primary bell ?

any other suggestions on how to insulate the floor and back wall ?

thank you.

thomas rubino wrote:Very Cool Peter!
Besides being functional it is a work of art!  

Congrats on version #5!
Is there a version #6 floating about your head?

Hello Thomas and fellow Permies enthusiasts!  

Greetings from the Canadian PNW. We are currently enduring a 10 day run of cold liquid sunshine that has us trying to avoid early sunsets and soggy outerwear during our winter solstice!  

Yes and Thank you! Yes! There will be a Frankenstove Mark 6!!! Soon to be built and this time it will be documented online in a step by step series from the “ground up” so to speak…… it will take every thing I have learned from the “Frankenstove Franchise featuring what I have done wrong on previous builds and how they got resolved in “Frankenstove Mark 6”
However, Frankenstove 6 will be a unique build for a 8’ x 12’ greenhouse over an aquaponic fish pond for growing lettuce and other greens year around!!! Yes! Another ambitious project that I wish to share!
This will include a sizable increase of thermal mass to help regulate the temperature during late fall to early spring. It will be wood pellet fueled as all other Frankenstoves and be of a 3-4 inch ceramic tube riser. You will have to follow along for other modifications that may be interesting for those that may wish to build their own. I hope to keep tooling down to a drill, a grinder and a flux core welder to keep the build feasible with respect to fabrication cost. I also promise to pull out one of my older builds to “recycle and reincarnate them” keeping the spirit of continuous improvement with Frankenstove modifications like its iconic movie namesake!  
It’s good to be back on forum! Stay tuned!

Hello Permies!  
It has been a long time since I last posted about developments on “Frankenstove Mark 5”.
“Frankenstove 5” has been heating our home and cycling daily during our PNW cold wet weather and soggy humid winters since its initial build and commissioning.
Here are some of the modifications I have done that I feel, you deserve to learn as you have either followed or have read this forum to the end to get to the prize of a gravity pellet fed vertical rocket mass heater that you can safely use to heat your home and have a means to hot water at no real extra cost.
Ok, where to begin…….

1) the 4” ceramic riser has held up very well with the daily high temp heat cycling. There are small cracks at the 90* where it glows red going up the riser.
2) The addition of a “bypass heating channel” to prime the chimney to increase an initial draft has solved a slow Smokey startup to just a short period of steam condensation and then clean burning out the stack. So those who say a RMH with a 4” riser won’t work are wrong, it just needs the draft to be established.
4) I re-engineered the ash bin to become a “secondary rocket stove to burn the small embers to completion using old double walled stainless steel thermos bottles.
5) the additional of 100 feet of copper pipe wrapped on the OUTSIDE OF THE BELL to act as a contact external heat exchanger to heat water for our hot tub. Note: our hot tub heater circuit died, leaving us with only a circulating pump which runs 24/7 which we have to leave on due to freezing conditions and to keep the hot tub filtered.
6) a knife valve to stop pellet feed was added to allow a fast shutdown of pellet supply. This means that the hopper doesn’t have to be emptied every night.