Doug Sass

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since Sep 18, 2022
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Recent posts by Doug Sass

Hi Xavier
I could not find a definitive article on Mitigation of pathogens through anaerobic digestion just many articles suggesting this is the case.    The ideal temperature for digestion occurs about 90-95 F.    Digestion also occurs at temperatures  120-150ish with a different type of microbes and this range i understand is more effective in reducing pathogens.    You need about a 30/1 carbon to Nitrogen ratio for optimum results so sawdust would be beneficial.     Also i did not mention that this process works better as a slurry (probably about 1/1) so more handling is required to add water.     I agree with Michael that your bucket system and even more so your tote system will quickly go anaerobic unless transferred to some other containment.    The batch system i described above is very similar to what I built years ago except I used a tractor tire inner tube to capture the gas.  
I think the promise of fast aerobic decomposition is rarely realized due to not being able to achieve aerobic conditions throughout.    Compost piles must be turned.  
Another issue I see with this festival waste stream even after successful remediation, it will contain trash and cups and more than a few cell phones so where do you put it to not pollute the environment?    You may still be faced with having it processed through a municipality.
I would like to know more about the system used at the festival Michael mentioned.    
This is great problem begging for a great solution.  
2 years ago
Hi Xavier
I read read your post.   What a load of cr^p!   About 1,000-1,500 gallons by my estimation.    I wanted to offer some thinking to an already suggested idea.   First my credentials:  as a boy growing up on a farm I became interested in biogas production after reading Mother Earth News Handbook of Homemade Power.   I built a digester and operated it to the amazement of visitors until one day I blew myself up.   Such is the life of a young inquisitive pioneer.   I have also been involved in fecal production for many years.   It seems your current approach has some issues:
1) Handling.    The waste requires much handling due to the 20l containers.    I would like to meet the brave folks who volunteered for this task.    Perhaps not shake their hands but at least have a beer with them and get to know true heroes.  
2) System Complexity.      Separating the waste streams caused problems.    What to do with all those buckets?    If it were my town, just put each one in an Amazon box on the porch.    It would be gone the next day!
3) Time.    The aerobic process takes 1,2 years.   Time for another festival, time for more buckets!
4) Cost.    Lots of buckets and lids and a place to store them long term.

Although I am not aware of an example of this being done,  perhaps this might better be accomplished with anaerobic bio digestion.  
1). Handling.   I suggest going straight into 55gallon drums (pardon my English units).    Would reduce the handling by ~90%.   Some styles have a completely open top and can be sealed with a clampy device lid prior to moving.
2) Complexity.    Biogas production works best with the right ratio of nitrogen and carbon.    Both streams go together.    Perhaps the barrel is pre-seeded with the right amount of used coffee grounds or some other convenient carbon source or perhaps it could be introduced after each use.  
3) Time.    Anaerobic digestion occurs much more quickly under the proper conditions.    Probably complete within two months.  
4) Cost.  Probably 1 55g drum costs less than 10 20l buckets

What would this look like?   All the drums would need to be placed in a building where temperature could be somewhat controlled.  If the temperature drops, no problem, process just slows down.    All the drums are tied together with a gas line coming off the top.     It goes to another set of drums, one upside down in water to prevent mixing of air and methane.   Methane is a more powerful greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide so it is immediately burned off and used to heat the building to maintain optimal temperature.  I would expect with the aerobic systems you have described that methane is still being produced and released.     When the gas stops bubbling, anaerobic digestion is complete and all pathogens have been neutralized.   Next step would be to spread the effluent on a farmland.    Would be an excellent project to work in collaboration with a university so every aspect could be measured and documented.  
2 years ago