Mia Angelo

Hi everyone.

Happy to see this thread continuing.

Sorry I haven't been on this forum for  while, been busy.

Thanks Jim and Lori!

I can also be reached at mia.angelo432@gmail.com

I'll be back in Mexico (Tepoztlan) in August for a few months, and would love to meet up with anyone from this thread who may be travelling to Mexico too.

"Foodscaping" is a concept that resembles the concept of homesteads next to each other

"Foodscaping" is a concept that resembles the concept of homesteads next to each other

Hi M.Wilcox !

I'm in process of organising my move, and the land in Tepoztlan is in process of being purchased, and there's room for others to join (to buy land next to me), if you and your wife want to buy 1, or 1.5 or 2 acres.
There's electricity available.
Water depends on rainwater harvesting (cisterns. Usually 50,000 litres are enough for the year for a homestead).
The idea is to create swales, ponds and check dams in the hilly area, and within a few years the ground water would hopefully more saturated so that seasonal streams would last longer and eventually be all year round.
The soil on my land is forest soil, very rich black organic soil, good for growing.
However, the soil does not have enough clay to be used for earth construction, and I'll need to buy clay for construction.
It's part of the natural reserve, so we cannot cut down the big old trees, which is fine by me, I'm grateful for the old trees, and am fine to build and design around them.

Which part of Mexico were you thinking of moving to ?
Welcome to ask questions, and I can answer the best I can, and also others who have been living there for many years.

Yes! : "homesteads next to each other". This concept does not have a name, so let's see if we can come up with one.
For want of a more accurate name, I put the post in "ecovillage", and the admins also put it in "intentional community".

"Homesteads next to each other" has elements of both "ecovillage" and "intentional community" but not exactly.
It's more like how rural life has been since centuries, small farms next to each other all over the world, except that it's updated to our times with permaculture, so there's an extra element of looking into overall watershed management together.
Examples of traditional rural small homesteading : the dachas of Russia, foodscaping in Denmark and Geneva, Switzerland,....

In our times, there are so many advantages of small homesteads next to each other :
(1) the total permaculture-managed surface area ecosystem is in good health, (instead of having neighbours who use chemicals)
(2) cooperation on many levels if we want/need to
(3) having one's creative space and "territory", privacy
(4) if we have volunteers, they can work part-time on the different homesteads
(5) sense of security of having good neighbours
(6) a beautiful peaceful atmosphere

I want to add a photo/meme to this text but I don't know how to upload it into the text here.

In Lak'ech

Hi everyone,
I saw that this old thread got reactivated.

I see that we're all trying to find the right word to describe a project of adjacent homesteads with fences, and where everyone owns their own land, is independent. rather than one huge land where others are staying for exchange of work. The latter can often become a kind of neo-fuedalism.
 
So what would the right word ? Ecovillage/Intentional Community ....or Foodscaping ?

I started a thread on this "Looking for like-minded people in Central Mexico" and put it in the Ecovillage category, and then there was a discussion about whether "ecovillage" is the right word.

I think that independent adjacent homesteads allow for independence, a prerequisite for inter-dependence.
Whereas a community of shared land is co-dependent.

 

Hi Flora,
yes Mexico is great ! Thanks for sharing your website too !

Hello everyone,
sorry for late response.
I had been on the move and forgot to take my password with me to log in !
I was able to correspond directly with those who gave an e-mail address.

So, after my last stay and travel in Mexico, I decided to settle in Tepoztlan, Morelos.

It's where I know most people, am familiar with it and my project can establish faster.

I need to be in cooler areas (altitude), for my own need, but also for the plants. In a cooler climate, the plants that need more warmth can be in a greenhouse, but in a hot climate, all plants that need cool climate struggle to survive.

In Oaxaca city region, the Sierra Norte mountains are under the Article 27 which does not allow foreigners to buy land. The local people told me that an exception can be made in my case because my project is service and community oriented, but it would take a long time to get the authorisation, after living there at least a year in a rented home in a village.  And even if I would be individually accepted, I cannot ask for other people who would buy next to me.

So, I came back to my "base", Tepoztlan, and am in process of buying a smaller piece of land than the size I wanted (very expensive in Tepoztlan region), but at least I get going.

There is still land available next to me (small plots of 4000 m2, 2500m2, 1000m2), in case anyone is interested to join me.

I'm willing to relocate in the future, in some years, if/when there's a larger group of people ready to make a bigger project.

For now, at least I can start on my own.

Thanks to everyone's input !

Hi Ann !

Thanks for the welcome, and for adding my post also the "Intentional Community" forum.

To answer your questions, no it's not an ecovillage with one large piece of land to be shared with many people.
It's rather many homesteads of various sizes in the same area, next to each other as neighbours, so that each individual household has their own system, their own design, their own creative space, their own specific project, on their own land.

However there's an overall general intention to the overall project :
- respect of Nature and environmental rules (sharing watershed management, rules such as no chemical pesticides and fertilisers, care to keep noise down as far as possible). Preference for natural building construction as much as possible (cheaper, earthquake-resistant, fire-resistant, cool in summer, warm in winter,...).
- sense of cooperation as good neighbours. No obligation, but people who like to share, and share tasks when possible.
- project members (those who buy land for the homesteads) would be both Mexicans and expatriates
- an open cooperative relationship with the local communities
- to have at least 3 permaculture homesteads where the primary focus is permaculture. Others can also buy smaller land for non-permaculture projects, for example for an art studio, for health profession consultations, workshops,... Then, the non-permie homesteads can give their organic waste to the permies for adding to the compost piles, and the permies can share their compost when it's ready with the non-permies who would have smaller gardens. These are examples of cooperation.
- the project is open to both permies and non-permies as explained above.
- the project is open to people who want to live in Nature, away from the hustle and bustle of big towns and from the toxicity of industrial agriculture, surrounded by others who want to do the same.

Unfortunately, many people buy land in beautiful places, but because their neighbours spray the crops with toxic pesticides, it seeps into one's own land.
So this is why "like-minded" neighbours who respect ecology is a good basis for a healthy and thriving eco-system.
"Like-minded" = respect Mother Earth, respect Nature.

The aim is to recharge the aquifers together, and to build more top-soil together. Even the non-permies who are busy with other activities can get advice and help from the permies to participate in top-soil building.

I believe that as more and more similar projects grow around the world and demonstrate the effectiveness of growing food in a way that improves the environment instead of depleting and spoiling it, it will eventually become mainstream.

Thanks Ann,

In Lak'ech

Hi Melissa,
thanks.

Yes, I'm familiar with the Mexican "communal land" status in rural areas.

Indeed when I visit Oaxaca city area this fall/autumn, I will be asking about the status of the land, and if it can be converted to small individual homesteads status.
As for the local governance system, I'm looking forward to learning more, and as it's a practice that has withstood the test of time, it's probably an intelligent system, that I would be grateful to join.

In any case, the project is meant to be in harmony with the local community. Also, among the people who would buy their portions of land and join the project, it would be good to have both Mexicans and expatriates for balance. Later, if we would create a Farmer's Market (organic) up in the area of villages up in the mountains, for example, then it's to be used by all farmers of the region, not just those from our project. There are already many Farmer's Markets in Oaxaca City and to create one more higher up in the mountains would be in collaboration and following the advice and instructions of the existing Farmer's Markets.
One of the main reasons why I appreciate Mexico is people have a sense of community and cooperation.

My recent experience in Mexico has been in Morelos, up in the mountains higher than Tepoztlan, and have found land there that is to be divided among people I know. However, I'm now hesitating to finalise the purchase in Morelos because there is not more land available close by, when others want to join in the future. It's in a natural reserve zone, forest, very beautiful, at 2300 m altitude.  Only a few portions can be sold in that area to people who will respect the strict environmental rules (not cutting down certain species of trees on the land, no tarmac roads etc.), which are all very good rules I have no problem respecting and agree with. However, it does mean that in the future there's no space for more people to progressively buy land next to us for the project to grow.
The second reason my attention is shifting from Morelos to Oaxaca is that there is a large permaculture community near Oaxaca city, called Tierra del Sol, whereas in Morelos most people create ecovillages for ceremonies and not for permaculture.

I would love to be surrounded by people who have a variety of projects, not only permaculture, as one of my friends who is part of the Morelos project plans to get a smaller portion of the land for her art studio. Yet, there needs to be enough permies in the project, at least 3. This would be theoretically easier in Oaxaca because of more space, yet I need to go check out land availability myself this fall.

At this stage, to prepare my visit to both Tepoztlan area and Oaxaca City area this fall, I'm reaching out in case there are people out there who have a similar project in mind, and so we can meet /correspond.

In Lak'ech