Jackson Bradley

I wanted to update and share a few things that we've learned over the year because interacting here https://permies.com/t/367559/Rex-doe-kits brought some things to mind.

Sometimes a first time doe will have a kit outside of the box. This has happened and if I catch it fast enough, I move the kit into the box with the others. That has not been an indication of bad mothering skills as long as it is not happening every time a doe kindles. I think having a kit outside of the box can lead to the instincts kicking in for the doe to cannibalize the kit. I check the expected mother does out every 30 mins to every hour on the expected morning especially if I have a first time mamma.

The does we keep as breeders have 10+ kits reliably. Sometimes, that same doe who gives up 10+ kits later may only have have 4-8 the first time she kindles. We wait for a few rounds to see what we have as far as number of kits.

I like to breed 2 does on the same day if I have 2 bucks or a day apart if I have 1 buck. Especially if I have an unproven doe. If a doe only has a few kits, I combine them all together with a proven mamma and rebreed the other doe a little faster than usual. This is a two edged sword because if you have a bad mamma, you want to be able to identify those kits if you have combined them so that you grow them out and cull if you have a bad mamma.

I believe we have retained all good mammas and this has been passed down in our short experience so it does not concern me to combine the kits. Otherwise the best way I found to identify them is with a fat red marker mark on their backs. Again, I think we are passed that point but we'll eventually need to bring in some unrelated animals unless we decide to line breed.

We try to keep a moderately intensive breeding schedule due to not breeding in the hot summer months. We breed a doe, let her kindle, rebreed 4 weeks after kindling, remove the kits around 6-7 weeks old and repeat. We do not breed from May-Sept.

Billy Weisbrich wrote:I have no source to back this up, but a well-respected poultry farmer in our area recently posted about the whole daylight and egg-laying thing. His claim was that a hen experiencing a longer day (whether naturally, ie: summertime, or from lights in the coop) will eat more since she is active for more hours of the day. Chickens sleeping on their roosts don't usually come down to eat in the dark, even if there is food available. He claimed the extra eating would result in more eggs being laid.

Your chickens may be experiencing something similar but, by feeding them very nutrient-dense food, it sounds like you can skip out on the lighting!

I have never used lights. For those that do, does it keep the chickens from going to the roost early? If so, the observation here makes a lot of sense.

I agree, also to do with protein. Last winter, our hens were on 16% protein layer feed supplemented with winter veggies, deer carcasses, chicken scraps. Laying slowed down around the solstice.

This winter they have been on 20% protein layer feed with winter veggies, deer carcasses, chicken scraps. All the way through the solstice, they ate less and gave me almost an egg per hen per day.  Barely noticeable that they slowed down.

paul wheaton wrote:I love this graphic



In the end, if you care, you do the things you can do.  

This reminds me of something I read a while back.  

The positive statement is that change happens first with the individual, then the family, then the community, etc.

The (or one of many) negative statement(s) would be that if anyone or any entity seeks to diminish the individual, then/or the family, then/or the community, etc. then they confirm the positive statement.

Not necessarily to exclude the attempt to change things through government whether local or larger scale. That is all well and fine if the positive statement is met or if you're seeking to support it being met by those avenues.

When I interact with a person, entity, group, party etc. I ask myself if they are promoting the individual, the family, the community, etc. or if they are diminishing the individual, the family, the community, etc.

Usually, if I have answered that question, I know what I need to know about that person or thing.

Seems to fit in with this graphic, to me anyway.

There are a couple areas in our life where this is very challenging.

Kids, we have 6. The default is for folks to buy or gift us endless plastic junk toys. We have sat everyone who does this down and explained our thoughts on this topic and that we would like to avoid that stuff. If played with outside, it is ruined (I guess from sunlight) in about 60 days. We have to repeat this conversation about every 2 years because a holiday or birthday will come around and it is like we never said anything about the plastic junk toys. We understand why this is the case and we try to be lighthearted about it.

Starting a homestead or adding a new category of animal, equipment, food preservation method, etc. The amount of things you need will be highly subjective to so many factors such as time and ready cash available. Buying used normally does not involve the original plastic packaging, shrink wrap, packing material, etc. Other than that, we don't have a say in how folks ship us products we need if we cannot find them local or used. If local, they probably received them in the same packaging and just unboxed them to some extent.

Like John mentions above, seeking out higher quality products that will last longer and are made of other materials is a good idea. Usually those products are more expensive because they are higher quality and do last longer. Over time, it is more economical but sometimes you may not have the budget for a quality item early on.

If recycling is analogous to repurposing, that can be a lot of fun.

I am still collecting all of the neighbors' carboard boxes. It's been a little over a year now since I started the post.

I shred about half and keep the other half broken down. I am very selective of the boxes to keep and shred. There have been a few uses for the cardboard that I did not expect. A few of the many uses:

1-Areas that have been previously mulched with wood chips and started to have more weeds and grass coming up than usual. I rake the mulch back and layer down some of the broken down cardboard boxes.

2-Chicken/Quail brooder material. I mix the shredded cardboard in with some wood chips or shavings. Reduces my cost of brooding if I would otherwise have to buy shavings from the store.

3-Quail poop stink fighter. I keep some of our quail in suspended wire cages in the coop. Mostly the breeders/egg layers I am keeping. Since the cages are stacked, I have shallow trays to catch the poop. That stuff stinks! I add a thin layer of shredded cardboard into the tray each time I empty them and this has helped eliminate the stink.

I'd say that I have recovered the cost of the shredder from using the material for the brooder alone. I lubricate the shredder with olive oil and it has performed very well. I do have to trim the boxes to size but I do that while the kids feed the pieces through. It is amazing how quickly you can fill a 10 cubic foot wheelbarrow.

Other than that, we receive all of the stuff they are throwing away. We just take all they give us and end up finding uses for about half of it. My wife did draw the line with me using some toilet bowls and tanks as planters after one neighbor remodeled the inside of his house....

Abigail M Johnson wrote:Yes, there is certainly the possibility of that. She never has pulled any fur. I was expecting the babies and had her a nest box with hay but she did not do anything with it at all, had babies out on the floor of cage. But she is first time. I suppose at least one more try would be warranted. I am keeping kits warm and I tried to get her to nurse them in the nest. She was thrashing around so I had to hold her in my lap, which she was very calm about. I put the kits to her to nurse and found them some nipples on her. It seems like they nursed, they are super young so I have no idea how much they eat less than a day old. Probably not a lot I'm guessing, maybe just colostrum. Just giving them a chance. I wiped them and put them back in the nest which I am keeping inside since the others all died outside in her cage. I fully realize they likely won't make it. Will try again this evening as they will be 24 hrs then. Maybe more milk will come in. Maybe some instincts will kick in at some point. I dunno.

I can relate to your sentiment and trying to do what you can.

In the thread I linked, I gave the doe 3 chances if memory serves. Some early replies were that they would cull after the first bad momma indications but I wanted to give it another try or two.

Since we have more animals now and we have a couple years experience with the rabbits, I would cull right away. But that is just because I went through the experience of trying some alternatives to culling.

Your current doe/kit situation may end up sadder than it already is but follow your instincts, do what your conscience is telling you that you ought to do and you'll get some great experience from this time if nothing else. Time + Experience = Wisdom.

Please keep us updated.

Abigail M Johnson wrote:Thank yall for the replies. Right now only 2 of her kits have lived. This is her first litter and she did not pull any fur or make any sort of nest in or out of the nest box. She had them on the cage floor. I saw them right away and made them a nest in the box. I checkes on them numerous times and made some adjustments. The doe is very comfortable with me, and I was worried she was not going to make a nest since it seemed that way. Anyhow, as early as possible this morning I went out, knowing it may not be a good scene with this being her first little and all. I have warmed the 2 that are left inside. When it gets daylight I will try to bring them back out and see if she will feed them I suppose. It seems like there's not much to lose intervening at this point. I raise ducks and chickens and have learned far more through bad experiences than not, unfortunately, so I understand how it goes. Not holding out too much hope for these but if she can figure out how to care for them, who knows.

I fill the nest box about half full of hay and the doe shifts it around and pulls fur. I had 2 does pull fur a week early this year and put the box in sooner than I normally would.

Unfortunately, you may not have a good mamma. See the thread here of my experience with one. It appears to be passed on and cannot be corrected in my experience and others commenting in this thread.

https://permies.com/t/272650/Meat-rabbit-kindling