jack spirko

Here is a video that shows my sorted sizes and what happens when you sort BEFORE you crush with the drive over it in a feedbag method.  The improvement is amazing

Thanks I just played with an idea to make crushing it a bit more effective with the drive over a bag of it method it worked really well.  Video will be out in about an hour as soon as it renders.  

Basically by screening before crushing it crushes a LOT better which makes a hell of a lot of sense when you think about crush vs. compact and empty spaces.  

It effectively with very little work reduced a full bucket of "large" to a third of large, a third of 1/2 and a third of fine.

I did it with a bucket of 1/2 and got about 1/3rd fine and about half of still 1/2.  

Really simple method and I don't think I will be putting it into my chipper ever again.  

This was a response to a thread located here https://permies.com/t/242903/Breaking-char-smaller-pieces#2834559  but I felt it would be a good stand alone post too.  

First I want to say I love the responses by Michael Cox (in the original thread), and I agree we need not stress over crushing.  That said there is some real value so here is what I do.  Also like Micheal since I do almost open top burns (cone kilns) my pieces most start pretty small anyway.  The quench alone fractures things a lot.  So I recommend start with heavy quenching alone will save a lot of work.

When my burn is done I quench, I leave it over night in the kiln and move it to buckets the next day.  

I have two screens, one is half inch and one is quarter inch.  I chop a bit at the char in the buckets with a sharp shooter shovel (if you don't know this is what I mean, https://amzn.to/4eSWAbQ ).  I put it though the 1/2 inch screen and push a bit with a hoe when I do this breaks up more.  

I then put what went though the 1/2 inch screen though a 1/4 inch screen and separate into three grades.  

1/2
1/4
Large

I get about 2/3drs of a batch into one of the smaller grades.  Now if you are going to crush further you only deal with what needs crushing based on your goals.

You can toss the big stuff into a bag and do the drive over it with a vehicle thing now MUCH more effectively as you are dealing with less and well trust me it crushes better.  Put that back though the screens.  You could also do that with the half inch but I don't.  All up to you but again you are only processing the part needing it.  

What I do with each "grade"

1/4 and finer - Goes in my feed for Ducks/Geese/Chickens, twice a week a tbs goes in the dogs food.  Also what goes in my worm bins and the big thing is it is what goes in my potting soil/starter mix.  Any I don't use for that goes into animal bedding in the coop.

1/2 if I need more 1/4 it goes in a bag and gets a crush, otherwise into the animal bedding.  That is a 1-2 year process before it gets to a garden.  Because once a year the deep litter goes into bioreactors.  By then a lot of it is smaller anyway.  If not who cares, it works wonderfully.  

Large - most of this is about the size we used to call "nut coal" in the coal industry (about a nickel to a quarter in size).  None is ever very big.  So if I need more it gets the bag and drive over trick and a couple screenings.  And sorted again, into the three classes.  But what if i don't want to crush more.  First it is also fine in bedding but I think we are missing a reality here, biochar is CHARCOAL and damn good charcoal.  

So gasp I end up with may be 20% of a run as large, I keep it separate and when I want to cook with charcoal I use it for that purpose.  It is fantastic for it.  I use the "side baskets" (like this in a weber kettle https://amzn.to/3B1BIBn ) and it works way better than briquettes and you get a lot more in due to more space efficiency.  

I can hear it now (OMG it is for muh soils and my CO2 sequestrations).  Hold on, you cook all the time the heat comes from somewhere.  I am using huge amounts of waste that would otherwise all go back to the atmosphere in break down if I didn't make the char.  I get bad ass soil amendments, but I also get fuel from scraps.  

My reasoning is despite it sounding like a ton of work, it isn't, super easy and fast.  So I spend more time making char then crushing it.  So I make a LOT more.  So more goes into the soil in the end.  

I will also say I have used a wood chipper and it works wonderfully.  WHEN you get the moisture just right which can be tricky.  But doing the big stuff after screening usually can do that.  But this all seems VERY hard on the chipper and when it is too wet it is a real tar looking mess.  One hack is after you do it put a few buckets of wood chips in to help clean it out and toss those in the compost or bedding but I have honestly quit this for a simpler model.  

Last it is really cool to make char in a grill then cook in that grill with some of the char you made.  Do you own a Weber Kettle Grill or one of the hundreds of clones of it, then you have a kiln.  Don't have one, check Craigslist or FB Marketplace you can likely get one in good shape for 50ish bucks.  Hell get two at that price.  A kettle is a PERFECT cone kiln, dare I say it works better then some you can buy marketed as kilns.  

Here is a video of me using one to make biochar, I just added a rotisserie ring, so I can up my yields by about 25%.  Any questions ask, I don't post here often but I always answer questions when I do so.

First I want to say I love the responses by Michael Cox, and I agree we need not stress over crushing.  That said there is some real value so here is what I do.  Also like Micheal since I do almost open top burns (cone kilns) my pieces most start pretty small anyway.  The quench alone fractures things a lot.  So I recommend start with heavy quenching alone will save a lot of work.

When my burn is done I quench, I leave it over night in the kiln and move it to buckets the next day.  

I have two screens, one is half inch and one is quarter inch.  I chop a bit at the char in the buckets with a sharp shooter shovel (if you don't know this is what I mean, https://amzn.to/4eSWAbQ ).  I put it though the 1/2 inch screen and push a bit with a hoe when I do this breaks up more.  

I then put what went though the 1/2 inch screen though a 1/4 inch screen and separate into three grades.  

1/2
1/4
Large

I get about 2/3drs of a batch into one of the smaller grades.  Now if you are going to crush further you only deal with what needs crushing based on your goals.

You can toss the big stuff into a bag and do the drive over it with a vehicle thing now MUCH more effectively as you are dealing with less and well trust me it crushes better.  Put that back though the screens.  You could also do that with the half inch but I don't.  All up to you but again you are only processing the part needing it.  

What I do with each "grade"

1/4 and finer - Goes in my feed for Ducks/Geese/Chickens, twice a week a tbs goes in the dogs food.  Also what goes in my worm bins and the big thing is it is what goes in my potting soil/starter mix.  Any I don't use for that goes into animal bedding in the coop.

1/2 if I need more 1/4 it goes in a bag and gets a crush, otherwise into the animal bedding.  That is a 1-2 year process before it gets to a garden.  Because once a year the deep litter goes into bioreactors.  By then a lot of it is smaller anyway.  If not who cares, it works wonderfully.  

Large - most of this is about the size we used to call "nut coal" in the coal industry (about a nickel to a quarter in size).  None is ever very big.  So if I need more it gets the bag and drive over trick and a couple screenings.  And sorted again, into the three classes.  But what if i don't want to crush more.  First it is also fine in bedding but I think we are missing a reality here, biochar is CHARCOAL and damn good charcoal.  

So gasp I end up with may be 20% of a run as large, I keep it separate and when I want to cook with charcoal I use it for that purpose.  It is fantastic for it.  I use the "side baskets" (like this in a weber kettle https://amzn.to/3B1BIBn ) and it works way better than briquettes and you get a lot more in due to more space efficiency.  

I can hear it now (OMG it is for muh soils and my CO2 sequestrations).  Hold on, you cook all the time the heat comes from somewhere.  I am using huge amounts of waste that would otherwise all go back to the atmosphere in break down if I didn't make the char.  I get bad ass soil amendments, but I also get fuel from scraps.  

My reasoning is despite it sounding like a ton of work, it isn't, super easy and fast.  So I spend more time making char then crushing it.  So I make a LOT more.  So more goes into the soil in the end.  

I will also say I have used a wood chipper and it works wonderfully.  WHEN you get the moisture just right which can be tricky.  But doing the big stuff after screening usually can do that.  But this all seems VERY hard on the chipper and when it is too wet it is a real tar looking mess.  One hack is after you do it put a few buckets of wood chips in to help clean it out and toss those in the compost or bedding but I have honestly quit this for a simpler model.  

Last it is really cool to make char in a grill then cook in that grill with some of the char you made.  Do you own a Weber Kettle Grill or one of the hundreds of clones of it, then you have a kiln.  Don't have one, check Craigslist or FB Marketplace you can likely get one in good shape for 50ish bucks.  Hell get two at that price.  A kettle is a PERFECT cone kiln, dare I say it works better then some you can buy marketed as kilns.  

Here is a video of me using one to make biochar, I just added a rotisserie ring, so I can up my yields by about 25%.  Any questions ask, I don't post here often but I always answer questions when I do so.

Best tool I have found for the original request is here https://www.easydigging.com/seeders-planters/jab-planter.html

R Scott wrote:

Brenda Groth wrote:HOLY CRAP them are some nasty thorns.

And they are poisonous!  You get stuck and don't take care of it right you may be losing whatever got stuck, or at least lose that muscle group and leave a nasty scar.  Many old farmers in these parts had lost toes or fingers or forearm muscle to thorn infections--almost as many that lost them to the machinery.  

The thorn is the first thing that comes out of the ground, too.  A 4 inch sapling with three 3 inch spikes--natural caltrops.  I lose tires to them every year, and several pairs of shoes.  They will go through any shoe and many boots.  Hard to spot in the grass, too.

Sorry this is inaccurate,

I'd have no arms or legs and be called Bob by now if any of this were true.  

paul wheaton wrote:I use coinbase for crypto.  A lot of people say it is a really bad idea.  Jack Spirko says it is the best.  https://www.coinbase.com/join/wheato_2l

Great place to buy, fast easy works like PayPal.  NEVER HOLD BITCOIN ON ANY EXCHANGE.

Minimum use a good software wallet like Exodus.io

Optimum, move your long holdings to something like a Trezor.  

All my Bitcoin Tools and Apps in one place are here.  https://thebitcoinbreakout.com/bitcoin-tools/

The entire point of Bitcoin is self custody, not your keys, not your coins.

Mart Hale wrote:-->

Here is that method that you don't agree with so others may know there is a way of doing this that Paul has found effective.
https://www.backtoedenfilm.com/organicgardening.html

I do believe Paul has a right to his method just as Ruth Stout named here method of using hay, she has a right to her method and her books.    

I do run a web page on Me We that talks about this non existing method of deep mulch as well as Ruth Sout's methods.
https://mewe.com/join/deep_mulch_-_back_to_eden__gardening

Mart

I didn't say I didn't agree with it, I said it isn't a method it isn't a thing.  It is just deep mulching with wood chips, of course it works that why I said gardeners have been doing it as long as wood chippers have been around.  Of course it works, but calling it "Back to Eden Method" is like say well imagine this.  

Lots of people mulch with straw, straw was in the manger, what if we start a new method called, "Back to Bethlehem Method", we mulch with straw that has animal poop on it.  Now we take this simple thing that people have done forever and we call it something and in the minds of people it becomes complicated.  

Call it anything you want it is just organic gardening and mulching.  Which absolutely does work very well.

Here are my thoughts you may take them or leave them, I expect some to not like them, that is okay.

1.  There is no such thing as a "Back to Eden" method.  Someone putting a name on something doesn't change what it is.  All this is amounts to compost and wood mulch.  As long as there have been wood chippers, gardeners have been putting wood chips on gardens.  I was doing it as a child for my grandfather in the late 70s.  One reason people are worried about what to do here is we stopped calling it what it is and made it a "specialized method".  If you just said use compost, organic fertilizers and heavily mulch with wood chips, it may not sizzle as well, but no one would be confused.  So just stop trying to make it complex and mulch an move along.

2.  There is absolutely no issue with wood chips "robbing nitrogen", it isn't a thing, stop worrying about it, it can't happen.  As many noted the chips break down very slowly, and there is a reason.  Only a very thin layer of the bottom chips can bond their carbon with the N in the soil and then only the very thin top layer of that.  If you have 8 inches of wood chips and 10 inches of good soil only about 1/2 inch of the two combined is even capable of the Carbon/Nitrogen bond at one time.  Further this small amount of N is not gone, it is given back over time as it naturally composts, breaks down and becomes soil.  I swear if one more of my listeners calls in and asks how to deal with chips robbing N, I am going to shoot myself, it isn't a thing, LET IT GO.

3.  In spite of #2 the best thing you can do is put down a lot of compost and a lot of organic fertility in the first few years for many reasons.  One is if your soil sucks, it is going to take a long time for just chips to change that.  So the next thing that happens is you are on the internet claiming the chips robbed nitrogen that wasn't there in the first place.  Next is the fact that in most of the US we try to get plants out as early as we can.  While the plants can survive the soil is still very cold and a lot of the nutrients that are there, can't be accessed by the plants as there is not yet sufficient biological activity to make them available to the plants.  This is specifically true in micro nutrients like Calcium, Magnesium, Zinc and Iron.  So for the first few years if you have any slow growth supplementing with chelated forms of those is a good idea too.  It is not needed but it is very helpful.  At the end is a link with my recommended fertility aids and how I use them.  I also recommend supplementing in early season with liquid kelp.  Again this is most needed in new gardens before the biology has caught up with the new ecosystem you are creating and very early in the season when many microbes are slow or asleep.  In time you need less and less even early on, you end up with a very slow composting action that gently raises soil temps.  Biology grows and a few seasons in you can only add more chips and supplement only where plants tell you to.  Compost teas are great, so are prepared products like Garrett juice.

4.  There is nothing you can do that will get this process kicked it the butt and rolling like fungal inoculation.  I always use a product called  Endo Mycorrhizae Fungal Inoculation from Sustainable Agricultural Technologies, Inc. when starting new beds.  I have trialed identical beds with identical plants with fungal inoculation as the only variable.  The results are undeniable.  Getting deep into what mycorrhizae fungi do is too complex for this post but they are amazing.  They will colonize the lower parts of the wood chips, colonize the soil, attach to your plants roots and effectively become extensions of their root systems and help with water and nutrient needs.  

5.  Be careful of the video that started this craze.  The guy is a wonderful person but his religion interferes with reality.  At one point he says something to the effect of, "Wood chips take up water when it is too wet and release it when it is too dry.  There is no way to explain that other than it is miracle."  That quote isn't exact but it is close.  It isn't a miracle and we can explain it, it is called osmosis, you learned about it in likely Jr. High School.  Here remember, "a process by which molecules of a solvent tend to pass through a semipermeable membrane from a less concentrated solution into a more concentrated one, thus equalizing the concentrations on each side of the membrane."  Not putting the guy down but when someone thinks grade school science is an unexplainable miracle, don't hang on every word they say.  This is just one example of many examples where very simple science is considered something miraculous in this video.   To be fair I myself consider these things miracles of creation, but it doesn't mean we can't explain them or understand them scientifically.  

6.  Sometimes, okay a lot of times people in our space want to be purists they consider "products" bad.  They don't want to use kelp or manures or organic fertilizer, etc.  They want no outside inputs.  Okay well ignoring that chips are most likely outside inputs, you can do that, it will work, the question is only when.  And where are you now.  Some say all I did was mulch with chips and look at my garden in the first year, it is amazing.  Great well you already had good soil, that is why it worked so fast with so little.  So if you want to only mulch, you can, it may take a few seasons to really make things happen though.  

7.  Feeding worms and microbes works, you can talk to your feed store, often they have feed they can't sell full price because wevels got in it, it got moldy, etc.  Just a thin layer of this on the soil will bring in worms like a dinner bell at a work camp.  I don't care what Dr. Ingam says, molasses works and works well.  Old moldy left over sweet feed is great.  You don't have to do this but it works.  We have trialed this also with beds side by side and after a season the worm count is 4-10x higher where feed was added.  As an added bonus as nuts as it sounds molasses especially dry molasses repels fire ants.  It does so indirectly, yea they eat it but it kicks up the nematode action and they hate that.  We have horrible fire ants in Texas and in spring when they boom I can litteraly see the outline around places we mulched with molasses, by the mounds going around those areas but not into them.  

Again you can do it all with just chips or just chips and compost but a layered approach will go faster.  If you are interested in the specific fertility products I use they are here http://www.thesurvivalpodcast.com/tag/fertility and as I add new ones (a very cool one is coming soon) I tag them so they are always here and always updated.  If anyone has any questions about this post just ask.  If anyone is upset by it, I apologize in advance but it is nothing but my opinion backed by about 35 years of growing gardens and over a decade of designing and implementing permaculture systems.