Daerk Denelith

jago25 wrote:
I see, clearly F/2 is the easy way to go. Nutrients by addition not subtraction! (a bit like earth potting vs hydroponics...)

Thing is, it would be nice to be able to do this from behind closed borders in a wartime situation etc, for survival. I wouldn't expect to be able to get hold of F/2 in those situations.
I will get some though from a local aquarium and start growing to practice.

Apparently they managed to grow algae in ancient egypt and mexico. But how did they do it? Probably they used it for livestock, that could be the reason. Still, I'd love to find how they do it, I've had no luck with searching. Any tips on what to search for? If this could be duplicated perhaps the results could be used just for livestock feed.

From my talks with Dr. David Stuart (University of Texas at Austin), the Maya scooped the algal biomass up from the water of extremely highly alkaline natural freshwater lakes whose sources are deep underground springs being filtered through alkaline mineral sediment. It was a perfect natural condition where almost nothing else COULD grow in such a lake... it was so alkaline that only spirulina and other similar extremophiles could survive there. I would assume the same from the Egyptian sources and sources such as Lake Chad in Africa. Good luck attempting the same without some high tech filtration and high energy expenses.

jago25 wrote:
It's a shame not to be able to use urea, but that makes sense. Once thing I would say is that I heard about a guy who lived in a diving bell for 12 days without any contact from the surface as an experiment. He was using algae as an oxygen source and feeding with urea. How did he do it? Perhaps the algae was simply not stable and had he continued it would have died off. I'll have to see if I can find that guy...

and offer him counseling!

Spirulina and many other species of algae are extremophiles. They can survive in many different extreme environments. The algae thrived off the urea but wouldn't be considered safely edible for human consumption unless in a survival situation. There are studies that claim that the protein substrate chains found in the host's cells still left in the urea can cause (if ingested) symptoms of Creutzfeldt–Jakob disease in humans. I can't attest to their validity or facts but at the very least I can state that there exists scientific studies that appear convincing when compared to placebo results. That's enough for me... it's easier to use far superior and safer medium, anyway.

jago25 wrote:
addundum:
The other problem is sourcing the starter culture. There are many scientific banks acros the world but:
1) no everywhere
2) Customs restrictions, and I expect this could get worse one day

I'm actually experiencing this problem right now. I'm not in one place to wait the 2 weeks for delivery. So, for example, I'm looking for a collection in Buenos Aires but I don't know if they have one. What I'll do eventually is drive to a collection and get it that way but it will be a while before I get to a place where I can do that.

Can't help there other than to suggest you pre-plan your route and pre-order with shipping address of a location you plan to be at soon.

jago25 wrote:
So there's lots of reason to develop something easier to do. It's the edibility that makes it hard.

I wonder, if Kefir can stablise the microfauna of the gut, can something similar do the same for an algae culture... or rather, can we lower standards a little.

Growing algae hydroponically is great but being able to do it unsupported would be amazing!

Lots of people only experience algae as a dried and strong-tasting seaweed. Fresh algae can often taste almost bland while being slightly salty... great for using as a condiment on toasted breads or crackers as an alternative to butter or mayo.

Ok... what exactly are you suggesting concerning the stablization of the algal culture, or lowering standards? What standards?

You can easily grow algae unsupported. It's as simple as some naturally alkaline water and a seed source for the algae. The problem is that algae can easily bloom and can disrupt existing ecosystems. Unless the algae already naturally is present, it's unlikely to be able to fit in with the existing ecosystem without intervention or instigation. Taking a species like spirulina and adding it into a local ecosystem can cause massive damage to the ecosystem.

Emulating the natural ecosystem where human edible spirulina can thrive safely (without danger of hazardous species or bacteria or whatnot) requires energy, additives, specialty equipment, and relative containment. Really not much of a way around that.

jago25 wrote:
I'm not sure if the sample bloomed. The colour in the tube was a light green from top to bottom, and not just at the top with just the Urea. I will try adding sodium bicarb to raise the pH next time and manually aspirating it with a hand pump every 6 hours next time. I need to find a way of heating it while in the sunlight...

Wow. That's some hardcore dedicated old-school low-tech methods. I'd suggest battery powered heater and lights at the minimum instead of all that work.

See above for my suggestion for a solar heater.

I wouldn't trust ANY natural ocean's medium in a bloom. Too many chances for unknown variables. Make your own medium using either distilled water or reverse osmosis de-ionized water with some F/2.

jago25 wrote:
a way to examine the algae would be useful. The problem is with these natural algae samples is I don't know what species are in there. I need a way to test them. I would say use a taste test but it's stinks! In addition there's loads of salt of course. Perhaps I could remove the salt and urea.

Everything mentioned here requires some VERY expensive testing equipment and filtering/processing equipment.

jago25 wrote:
I do sometimes have access to Niskin bottles. But this makes it harder for the amateur; we need something easy. We also need to think about supporting bacteria that can clean the medium for the algae, otherwise we get a die off. A die off is hard to gauge without expensive equipment, tat needs to be thought about too.

Just boost pH to at least 10 for half a day (12 hours) using sodium bicarbonate. This "freezes" the algae's replication, but it still produces lipids and still absorbs nutrients from the water. No die-off and the nutrient isn't wasted and other biologicals aren't introduced into the system. You'll have to harvest immediately afterward but then you can re-seed a new batch with some of the harvest and maintain it's pH at 8.6 to 9.

jago25 wrote:
A stage that can help is removing the zooplankters that feed on the Algae by prefilter. This should be a fairly straightforward step... but can we find a natural filter?

The Spirulina sample has died before I got a chance to look after it. The problem with slow delivery times and moving about so much is that it's hard to take delivery of it...

To address this it is easier and FAR cheaper (not to mention 100% stable and reproducible) to simply use filtered pure potable water and artificially turn it into seawater by adding F/2.

jago25 wrote:
spirulina should be able to survive on Urea alone.

Just because Spirulina can SURVIVE in those conditions doesn't mean it's good for the spirulina or efficient or good for YOU should you wish to ingest the spirulina. There are so many negative variables due to the fact that urea includes fatty cells from the host, trace chemicals from the host's diet, medications, etc... I wouldn't touch that stuff. Use F/2 nutrient and save the pee for the toilet.

jago25 wrote:
I work at sea so I wondered if I might be able to create a bloom from just sampled water.
To try to create a bloom I just took a sample in a plastic tube and added aged urine for nutients. No visible bloom yet on day3. Not suprised.

I expect there to be algae in the sample and that some sort of algae must survive in the 14 degree water temperature here(north sea). The tube is tied to a handrail but still very little agitation. I have next to no equipment to work with so this is completely ghetto.

Next I will try increasing the pH with a little sodium bicarbonate with a resample. Then I'll look at ways to get more co2 into the tube. Quite how I might do this I don't know but I can place the tube by air conditioning outlet thus increasing the temperature while keeping it in the sun. Perhaps I can use yeast (sugar is available) but for that I'll really need to get the temperature up. Temp is the key here but that usually involves plugging into the grid. On land perhaps a tube could be tied to livestock.

Electricity is likely going to be a requirement unless space isn't an issue. In that case you can heat the medium using a solar water heater. Also you need to have the temperature of the culture up before it is exposed to direct light otherwise you'll fry the algae. It does NOT like to be cold and exposed to bright light.

Don't worry about more CO2. Unless you're using a micro-bubble/nanobubble diffuser to saturate into the water, most pure CO2 sources will actually offgas from the water without being absorbed. Not to mention that using a standard air pump is enough in most areas to scrub existing CO2 from the atmosphere by allowing the algae to absorb it in the medium. It's not efficient but it is enough CO2 for micro-farming operations. I sincerely hope that NO-ONE tries to produce their own CO2 unless they have a totally enclosed system that recycles it's own offgases to ensure all CO2 has multiple chances to saturate in the medium and be absorbed and utilized by the algae. We have more than enough of a CO2 greenhouse gas problem as it is without hobbyist contribution.

Most areas have thousands of tonnes of CO2 in the local atmosphere. Placing the airpump on the ground increases the chance of pumping higher percentages of CO2 into the tank since CO2 is heavier than air.

jago25 wrote:
The goal is to learn how to do this on a shoe string and with very little tools so that if I'm on holiday somewhere (I travel for 80% of my life which is great but means I've only been able to do bacterial culturing), I can get something like this going. In addition I'd like to do this in a basic way before I spend much money on it.

I had a spirruella sample sent that arrived after I left home. It's been kept in the fridge for me. Should I add anything to keep it alive?

Loosen the cap on it so it can breathe while in storage. Ensure it isn't exposed to light. Should keep for up to at least a few months without anything as long as it is in a proper medium.

jago25 wrote:
Thanks in particular to Daerk for all this helpful info.

My pleasure. Nice to know so many people are interested in building their own micro-farm algae projects.

jago25 wrote:
Where can I find more info on growing? The Algaelab forum is spammed and a little low on info without a workshop; not much help if you're in Africa.

Personnally I love all this info but it's not the angle I'm aiming for. Just a little bit too difficult. I'm interested in getting a very basic culture started from as little as possible. Something as easy as possible for a survival viewpoint and also practically for people who just haven't got access to all these resources. Can it be made cheaper and easier is what I ask myself.

Sure. Take a 10 gallon aquarium, some silicon airline tubing, some airline check valves, a few airstones, an aquarium plant light (preferably one that hits the light nanometer ranges previously mentioned), an aquarium air pump (preferably one with rheostat controls and dual output, rated for at least 20 gallon tank), 1 gallon of part A F/2 formula, 1 gallon of part B F/2 formula, a high range pH test kit (liquid dropper test with range up to 10), a single 25 micron filter bag, sodium bicarbonate, and a submersible aquarium electric heater.

The airstones (with checkvalves to ensure nothing goes in reverse back to the airpump) provide the agitation to the culture as well as providing CO2 to the medium. The heater keeps the medium to proper temp. The sodium bicarbonate keeps the pH high (higher than 8.6 for growth, but boost to 10 for at least 12 hours prior to harvest... this will ensure that the majority of any hazardous biologicals have been eliminated and that the culture is relatively safe to ingest. This will not ensure that the algae has not concentrated toxins within them, though... so it's not 100%. The plant light should be on for 16 hours per day. Off for 8 per day. I suggest off during the darkest time of the night. The algae needs the dark time for breathing. The F/2 provides a pure salt-water environment full of nutrients for the algae. Essentially it allows you to take freshwater and turn it into pure saltwater without any biologicals in it.

jago25 wrote:
If possible I don't want to be reliant on pre-prepared culture mediums.

I can't find much info on salt-water varieties and also cold water varierities. A salt water variety to my mind sounds like it should be easier to keep clean, perhaps the salt water medium can be easier to source?

Few things to note here...

F/2 medium is essentially not only the natural chemicals found in salt-water... but it's also of the correct strengths to provide nutrients for the algae. It's not pre-mixed because once mixed the nutrients begin to leach out. Using actual seawater means dealing with thousands of "unknowns" that generally require expensive high-end equipment to even begin to test for... much less resolve.

To do what you're wanting to do in the cheapest possible and easiest manner would necessitate that you create your own medium and not try to use seawater with it's unlimited variables.

Also, salt-water has many problems associated with the aquaculture groups... including requirement of more expensive pumps, scrubbers, etc. Generally speaking, freshwater would be easier than saltwater.

spiritrancho wrote:
I have kept back 1/4 of my solution so will just add the 8 oz. of culture to it when it arrives.

I wouldn't suggest doing this. Your existing culture is likely mostly rods. You wouldn't want to imbalance your new culture with a deficient stock before the new culture has even had a chance to propagate. Personally I'd suggest you harvest all of that and plan on breeding the new culture from scratch.

spiritrancho wrote:
Meanwhile I will add fresh water and nutrients to keep going.  I have put the milk contaminated spirulina on lettuce but cant detect the results yet. 
The instructions for my F2 nutrient says to add 1 ml per 2.5 liters of water.  That is what I do to feed the existing stock.  I add double that when adding fresh water to increase the batch size.  Does that seem correct to you, Daerk?

Double-dosing for gestational cultures is common, but not really helpful due to the fact that most of the nutrients are actually just being wasted and not absorbed and used by the culture.

spiritrancho wrote:
I also add 0.2g sea salt and 0.5 g montromorillianite clay per 2.5 liter of fresh water.  Any other supplements required or suggested?

The clay makes the pH easier to regulate but can cause problems with clogs in pumps and filter media. Make sure any aquarium pump you're using is rated for silt and saltwater. You'll need to likely replace airstones more regularly as well. Personally I'd add a bit of sodium bicarbonate, it boosts pH but also forces the algae to produce more lipids.

spiritrancho wrote:
I could not afford to buy 25 micron filter media so I went to walmart fabric dpt. and found curtain shear material so dense that I could not see my hand thru it.  A yard of that and a yard of some less dense cost less than $6.00 and filtered my spirulina very well.   For the first filter I used standard cheese cloth.

Nice workaround! I'd be more than interested in seeing what product that material is, so I can save some money doing the same

Cheese cloth will really only catch large clumps. I still suggest between 60 and 80 micron filter media for the first stage filtration.

spiritrancho wrote:
I filtered the whole batch (6 gal) at a sieche of 4 cm and got about 3 tablespoons of nice algae.  Concept prooved so next will build up to 5 gal and 2 cm for a standard harvest.

Remember to put some of the 45 micron (middle grade!) filtered algae BACK into the medium to propagate!

spiritrancho wrote:
Putting the aquarium heater in a jar of water in the aqurium of algae causes far less clumping than directly in the culture.  That got me thinking.  I have read about using cool flourecent light inside of a PPR so I put a cool compact flourecent in a heavy jar in the aquarium.

Yeppers. That's why I suggested a waterproof transparent container inside of Silverseed's 60-ish gallon drum. Same principle.

spiritrancho wrote:
Only problem is the jar tends to float and turn over so required extra wieght to keep it down.  The result is much faster growth than the blue red L.E.D. lamps I was using.  I still keep the light on a 14 hour timer, during daylight.
Thanks again for your guidance Daerk

No problem. Glad to be of help.

I suggest a 16 hour timer.

spiritrancho wrote:
Thanks Daerk.
Yesterday I seperated cream and followed with 4 gal on spirulina solution.  I ran it thru twice and got very little increase in density.  Utter failure.  Now that solution is contaminated with milk solids, but have been running it for 6 months.  You taught me that it needs refreshing with new culture.  So I ordered some.
I have tried 50 mc bags singly and captured very little green.  I will follow your three layer tip down to 25 mc.  After passing thru the filters do you add fresh nutrients and reuse that solution or dump it and add fresh water and nutrients?   As to the heat, should I put the heater in a jar of water and indirectly heat the solution, in hopes of avoiding algae kill?  Air temps here often drop 30 deg. F at night.

No problem.

Hmmm... you shouldn't need a restock of culture unless you didn't have harvest densities when attempting to harvest and your culture has been genetically restricted to rods instead of spirals... or it's contaminated. Essentially, I suggest not attempting harvest until you reach 2cm density on a secchi disc, and then putting 1/3rd of the harvest back into the tank to continue to grow. See, when you harvest spirulina the majority of your harvest are the spiral cells. The strait rod cells are hard to capture in a filter. It's easier to capture them in a 25 micron filter but a large portion of the rods slip right through that, too. I consider "rod" cells to be genetically inferior to the "spiral" cells. When you repeatedly harvest the majority of spiral cells from your culture and leave only the inferior rods to reproduce, you are effectively reducing the genetic stock quality of your culture with each harvest. It's good practice when attempting to increase the genetic stock quality to:

* Harvest the entire culture at 45 or 50 micron filtration without pressing
* Empty the filtered medium and use for agricultural fertilizer
* Take freshly prepared medium and place 1/3rd of the harvested algal biomass into it
* Slowly add more medium as the culture reaches a ready split state until the culture vessel is at capacity
* Repeat

This process effectively weeds out the majority of rods with each harvest, ending with a genetically superior stock consisting of mostly spiral cells rather than rod cells as I assume your culture to currently be due to your difficulty in harvest attempts. It takes EXTREME care to avoid damaging the spiral cells when filtering then adding them to fresh medium.

Spirulina Secchi Index:
Culture during "Gestation" phases: 4-6+cm
Culture ready for Splitting: 3cm
Culture ready for Harvest: 2cm
Dangerous Culture Suffocation Levels: >1.5cm

I refer to any diluted culture as gestational. It's too diluted to do anything with until it's growth reaches (at minimum) splitting level.

Splitting density is when the culture is dense enough to justify adding more medium without wasting the medium nutrients which deplete over time if not consumed. Technically you can harvest at this level but in my opinion it's a waste since it doesn't take much more time or nutrients to reach 2cm density for harvest and then start all over with a gestational culture.

Suffocation density is when the culture is too dense to breathe. Spirulina literally breathes carbon dioxide and other gasses in and breathes out oxygen and trace gasses. When the culture is too dense, whole portions of your culture can die from suffocation.

Due to the costs of nutrients and energy used to increase densities from 2cm to 1.6cm I find it more economic at present to simply harvest at 2cm.

If you are not attempting to rejuvenate or otherwise strengthen the culture genetic stock, dumping the medium is not recommended as it will likely retain nutrients as well as biomass able to be harvested using more efficient means such as centrifuge or mass dehydration. I personally ensure nutrient levels have been consumed prior to harvest and I dump the rods as gardening fertilizer which makes for an AMAZING result in nutritional properties of produce grown in that nutrient-rich soil.

Your idea for thermally leached radiant temperature control is sound. Leached heating and cooling of algal culture is the recommended manner to control culture temperature. I use thermal leach temperature control on my PBR. It provides a much smoother transition in temperatures as well as eliminating direct contact with the heating and cooling elements.

I'd like to see more pictures from others growing Spirulina, as well. I'll get to looking for mine on these thumbdrives and external hdd's as I promised, too

spiritrancho wrote:
The spirulina I started growing came from Wards Scientific.  It originally clumped together and was easy to harvest with a fish net.  Now it will only stain a 50 micron strainer, even tho it is dense ( sieche 1-2).  I keep the solution above PH 9.5 to insure it is not cross contaminated. 
I regularly use a cream seperator for goat's milk, making cream for butter.  Has anyone experimented using a cream seperator for harvesting algae.  Seperators from the urikrane are listed on ebay for as low as $72, $35 shipping.

Clumped together Algae is a sign of a bad environment. Likely due to the heating element you had in direct contact with the culture in the first place. When Algae is directly heated some of the cells die from being overheated and their polysaccharide content "thickens" the immediate water around it. When this happens enough times it causes a gel-like effect where dead and living algal cell biomass is caught and held in place. In addition, this "gel" layer of polysaccharide reduces the surface area contact the algae has with the medium, meaning it cannot absorb as much nutrient from the medium as quickly as it used to. This also can block some of the light wavelengths intended for the algae's photosynthesis. Specifically the red spectrum light which is converted into chlorophyll type "A" (the photosynthetic process primary workhorse).

Spirulina grown in such an environment is less nutritious, grows slower, and generally has a strong unpleasant seaweed flavour.

You need a graduated straining filter. Essentially:

One 5 gallon bucket with a few 1/4" holes drilled into the bottom.
One unaltered 5, 6, or 20 gallon bucket.
One 73 micron filter bag sized to fit into the 5 gallon bucket.
One 45 micron filter bag sized to fit into the 5 gallon bucket.
One 25 micron filter bag sized to fit into the 5 gallon bucket.

Place the unaltered large bucket on a flat surface.
Place a wooden or metal support grid over the top of the large bucket. (You can use 2 separate 2"x4" studs, a metal grill, etc)
Place the 5 gallon bucket on top of the supports. Ensure the holes are unblocked and fluid can pass from the holed 5 gallon bucket into the larger bucket unhindered.
Place the 25 micron filter bag into the 5 gallon bucket first.
Place the 45 micron filter bag into the 5 gallon bucket next (directly on top of the 25 micron filter bag).
Place the 73 micron filter bag into the 5 gallon bucket last (directly on top of the 45 micron filter bag).

To use, simply pour your algae culture into the 73 micron filter bag. The 73 micron filter bag will effectively filter out the clumpy dead zone sections of your algae culture. This is the lowest quality harvest you have just captured.

The 45 micron filter bag will collect a much better and more nutrient-rich harvest of live spirulina with less ratio of dead cells or clumps. This is your mid-grade quality harvest.

The 25 micron filter bag will collect a significantly more nutrient-rich harvest of living spirulina. This is the top notch grade. Doesn't get better than this.

Concerning the cream/milk separator... save your money. Those separators are around 250 micron density filter material. Anything over 60 micron and you won't be harvesting your spirulina unless it's dead colony strips or clumps.

Here's a source for relatively cheap 5 gallon filter bags: http://www.freshheadies.com/catalog/bubble-bags-singles-22/5-gallon-replacement-bag-38.html

Hope this helps...

AlgaeLabOrg wrote:
Bravo to those of you growing Spirulina! For those interested in exploring the blue-green world on their own, I suggest checking out www.algaelab.org. We sell complete and very affordable kits with everything you need to grow, harvest, and eat your own live Spirulina superfood!  If you pick up the kit at a workshop (in the SF Bay Area), it will include a 10-gallon tank. If you buy the kit online, you will have to provide your own tank. If you already have some kit components, email us and we can sell you a cheaper kit without some items…

Heya Aaron! Good to see you here

Hope your workshop goes well bud

I just bought a litre of your spirulina. Gonna check how many spirals and rods your culture has compared to mine

Hey do us a favour and keep us posted on the progress of the probe, pleeeaaassssee?

Gelstudios wrote:
Daerk can you post pics or link to a flickr gallery or something? I'm sure im not alone in wanting to see a work of art such as yours. Not to mention the educational benefits

Sure will.

I'll need to find all the pics and vids I made during the construction, but as of right now I've disassembled some of it to optimize for energy consumption. The stepper motor arrangement just ate too much energy for my wallet's liking. I'm currently about 3/4th's of the way done on rebuilding using a non-moving lighting assembly. I did find a few of the initial pics of the shelf construction and the radiant heating/cooling manifold that I can go ahead and upload now, though.


Here you can see the Manifold sitting on a sheet of the acrylic I used to build an airtight sealed lid for each of the aquariums I'm using. Also pictured is one of the growing tubes in it's rough and unfinished state (no marine adhesive or drilled inputs/outputs or internal components).
You will also notice the 55 gallon tank under the acrylic.


Here's the support shelf that the PBR is connected to... I need to find the remaining pics (these were on my cell phone).
The PBR is connected on the lefthand side of this shelf.


Close-up of the reservoir support shelf.

I'll look for the pics and vids I took of the initial construction and upload those as I find them.

tamo42 wrote:
Do you sell spirulina commercially? 1 lb/week seems to be way above personal consumption levels. If you are commercial, what kind of NOI do you run?

Technically it's NOL

I do sell it to a few friends and I on occasion do go to the local farmers market with some fresh and some dried Spirulina and Chlorella.

Until I've sold enough to get a return on the initial investment I'll be operating off a loss. Not income/profit. So right now I'm out of pocket on the configuration. Eventually I plan on moving larger scale with both the size of the PBR as well as the quantity of PBR's in operation. Then I will be selling online and locally and will be operating in the black instead of the red.