All about SKIP, PEP, Badges, BBs and More!

I'm probably not understanding fully but here's a shot at an answer.

PEA is kind of an odd duck since it's not tied to a place or climate.  If there's a BB that would be the same in PEA as it is in PEP, the PEA badge wouldn't recreate it.  It would just say "Do any PEP BB to the PEP standard and get X points".  So one BB write-up in the PEP style would cover other PEXs.  

If someone creates a PEX for the jungle, they'd probably have many different BBs in the foraging badge than there are in PEP (Montana).  If any were a duplicate they could just write the same BB down in their badge and have it link to the PEP BB.  All the jungle specific ones would just be written up as PEJ BBs.

If all the BBs were written as PEX BBs, there might be issues with a BB called "Chop and Drop - PEX BB gardening.sand.chopndrop".  Is it the one for chopping jungle stuff and dropping it?  Is it the prairie one for scything grasses and dropping?  Is it the tundra one that does something else?  Those are all poor examples but I think we need the PEB or PEW or PEP on the BB to specify how it's different.

Mike Haasl wrote:PEA is kind of an odd duck since it's not tied to a place or climate.

If all the BBs were written as PEX BBs, there might be issues with a BB called "Chop and Drop - PEX BB gardening.sand.chopndrop".  Is it the one for chopping jungle stuff and dropping it?  Is it the prairie one for scything grasses and dropping?  Is it the tundra one that does something else?  Those are all poor examples but I think we need the PEB or PEW or PEP on the BB to specify how it's different.

I'm not really aiming at PEA for this, it just that PEA will be the next to get attention. I'm more thinking about when, let's say Jemima, posts a job offer, Jemima can put together a quick PEX list as a way to filter through people. If the BB is labeled PEP rather than jungle, prairie or tundra then Jemima needs to know exactly which PEX holds the specific BB she wants or there will need to be a master list of all BBs in all PEXs.

I'm proposing that the BBs get catergorised by the badge type (electricity vs plumbing) rather than PE type (PEP vs PEA).

If people want a modified version of "Chop and Drop - PEX BB gardening.sand.chopndrop", then they copy the original BB and append the version type, "Chop and Drop Jungle - PEX BB gardening.sand.chopndrop.jungle".
PEP wouldn't be affected as you still get to the right BB by going through the PEP index page.

My thinking is that PEP could effectively be the gold standard that Jemima can easily replicate.

Did that make more sense?

Maybe?  I think I need to read through it another time or two - not today...

Is there a BB somewhere for making biochar? I've done some searching but not finding one.

Good question, no there isn't a BB for that.  I don't think that's part of Paul's permaculture set.

OK, thanks Mike.

I have a question about completing BBs... is it possible to submit projects I have already completed on our property to count for a BB and then eventually a badge. For example if I have piled up a nice stack of brush for animal/insect habitat and/or have stacked two rock pile toad/snake habitats in the garden or perhaps the water heater and pressure tank we replaced shortly after we moved in. Could I submit photos of those completed and get credit for them or will I have to do any/all of that again? If this has already been answered I apologize for bringing it back up but I have been unable to find it.

Hi Alex, you can get credit for work you did in the past as long as you have the required photos/video as you did the job.  

Thanks Mike! Alternatively could I improve on the size or scope of something like a toad house and get credit for that then if I didn’t have a before photo?

Maybe?  Depends on how you do it.  If the old toad house helps support the construction of the new one then I'd think it wouldn't apply.  

A new video taking the kickstarter video and massaging it into something that can just help us explain SKIP

Sometimes we forget it is a literal rat race:



Time to SKIP!

In completing these badges and levels, how does one get acquainted with a landowner in a given region?

Zane Provost wrote:In completing these badges and levels, how does one get acquainted with a landowner in a given region?

We've got a thread for that now! Here's the thread for people to show off their badges and indicate what region(s) they are interested in: list of SKIPpers and PEPpers

I'll go update the first post of this thread with that information. Thanks!

I have a question regarding proof of completion or authentication of Badge Bits (BBs) with photos and videos:

To assist in privacy, to comply with legal regulations, or to uphold the dignity of individuals, when proving completion of a BB, are photos, screen captures, video links or the like allowed to be sent via a Purple Mooseage as a kind of separate correspondence "attachment" to a public facing PEP post?  

For instance, if someone is hosting a workshop with refugees, or children, or is doing a permablitz in a sensitive area (perhaps in the aftermath of a natural disaster, or for a group of people deserving privacy, etc.), can such authentication be sent via separate correspondence to the permies staff "owner" of that PEP thread, or to another designated permies.com staff person?    If so, how do we know who to send it to?

I really hate the idea of "using" people in a photo and posting it on the open web solely for SKIP accreditation purposes.


**EDIT:  Short answer to question = Negative.  Authentication photos must be publicly posted.  Permies staff people recommend blurring photos.
Additionally, the above question is moot in certain global locations.  This is not legal advice here, but in such areas where permission to share publicly is legally required (or else the individuals distinguishing face/marks/clothing blurred), there is no exception even for privately sent messages.  In other words, even that "Purple Mooseage" or group chat would still need to be blurred if the photo is taken in locations like the EU and there are extra event  attendees or strangers in the background.**

No, PEP isn't set up for that type of certification.  The proof needs to be visible publicly so that the Otises can see that the person did the tasks themselves.  

Not many PEP BBs require you to be in the picture.  They very rarely require the images of others and if they do you can smudge their faces.

I tend to frame my pictures so I'm facing away from the camera. If anyone else is in my picture, I photograph them facing away or blur their faces in photoshop.

If you don't have a blur tool, you can just put giant emojis over their faces, or put purple hearts that cover their faces, etc.

Mike Haasl wrote:The proof needs to be visible publicly so that the Otises can see that the person did the tasks themselves.
Not many PEP BBs require you to be in the picture.  They very rarely require the images of others and if they do you can smudge their faces.

Ok.  For other's reference, the Community Badge is the rare one we're talking about.  Several of the BBs will involve multiple hours of workshops, presentations, tours, working parties, and the like, which may be in private places or situations depending on the nature and location of the work and individuals.  Take note that some countries require not just faces, but other distinguishing marks like tattoos, or even clothing.

Nicole Alderman wrote:I tend to frame my pictures so I'm facing away from the camera. If anyone else is in my picture, I photograph them facing away or blur their faces in photoshop.

If you don't have a blur tool, you can just put giant emojis over their faces, or put purple hearts that cover their faces, etc.

If people don't want to pay for Photoshop, but still need to blur out individuals or distinguishable features from any pictures in a professional manner, they can follow instructions I made over here:

https://permies.com/t/162708/pep-community/Enhancing-privacy-blur-pixelate-portions

Then you need a different group of people to complete the BB.

If completing the BB violates privacy, dignity or something legal, or puts anybody at risk for anything, then don't do it.

Is there a BB or BB's for Hedge Laying? It's a technique where you modify trees to lay on their side to create a natural & living wall that animals can't walk through. If not, I would humbly suggest adding it. It seems like a very permaculturey type thing to use living plants to make a largely impenetrable fence. This video explains a style of hedge laying.

B Lunaress wrote:Is there a BB or BB's for Hedge Laying?

I found it! Take a peek here.

Joylynn Hardesty wrote:

B Lunaress wrote:Is there a BB or BB's for Hedge Laying?

I found it! Take a peek here.

Excellent! Thanks!

Question:  If we have a bunch of photos from a fun BB event, can a single PDF containing all the requisite proof photos and project information be uploaded, rather than uploading many individual photos?

If you can somehow bookmark the pdf such that staff doesn't have to scroll through the entire pdf to find each BB it might be good enough. Maybe.

George Yacus wrote:Question:  If we have a bunch of photos from a fun BB event, can a single PDF containing all the requisite proof photos and project information be uploaded, rather than uploading many individual photos?

No, sorry  Some of the certifiers have crappy enough internet that we need concise photographic proof posted to the appropriate BB thread.

I think you might be able to make a PDF of all the pictures for a specific BB, and upload that and then "convert to a cbook" so it can be read here on permies. But, that's a lot more work, and would mean the certifier would need to navigate away from the main BB thread to see the evidence. It's really nice to have it be streamlined and easy for certifiers. (The people certifying are all volunteers, so we try to make it super easy so things get certified in a timely manner for people!)

Uploading a screenshot of the specific pdf page might work fairly easily for everyone.

Question, as 1/2 of a couple would we have to earn all of our badges separately or could we combine badges for a full certification? Case in point I am the food preserver and fiber fiend, and he prefers working with with wood and melting metal to turn it into things, and we both work in the garden. Is there a requirement for any of the badges that you must complete the tasks unaided?

I believe all of the badge bits are required to be done by one person. We're certifying a person. It's kind of like when my husband was in college and I couldn't just do his math for him. He had to manage it himself to get his degree.

But! If both of you are completing Badge Bits and Badges, you can list those combined efforts in a thread showing off your skills as a couple. While you might have a hard time getting a PEP1 certification by only doing things that match your individual strengths, each of you could easily get your own BB60 badge and explain how, between the two of you, you've completed everything for a PEP1 badge.

Forgive the newbie question.  I'm sure it's been explained and I just haven't seen it yet.  As I'm doing some larger projects I'm not always alone when I do it.  For example this last weekend I framed out part of a shipping container so that I could put lumber shelving in and other shelving to make the space as efficient as possible.  However I didn't do it alone.  I had helpers (children, dad, wife) that would help hold, move, mark, and other simple tasks.  I planned, managed, and executed the project, but they helped with small things to make the job go faster.  Is that something I can post towards the odd ball or do I need to be the only one working on it?

Good question!  You can have help holding the other end of something or lifting something heavy, but all the rest of the work needs to be by you.  

What's the general philosophy on stacking PEP fulfillment? If I need to dig a Dakota pit and cook something and also one of the four soups I need to make needs to be made on a rocket or Dakota pit and also I want to serve a pound of sunchokes, Can I dig the stove and cook sunchoke chowder to fulfill all three of those requirements? I can imagine it going either way -- like hey, a reward for being clever! Or it could look like cheating. And neither of those is wrong or right in any objective sense. So I thought it would be better to just check in rather than tarnishing my newbie reputation by doing something sketchy. (I've seen suggestions of getting a 'twofer' in some places but in others, the opposite implication was made.

I’ve stacked. It seems only natural. You hand wash some clothes, then hang on the line you just put up . . .

I make sure that they stand alone though, showing every step in each submission, rather than saying ‘oh, I did this on this BB -> link’

BTW - you could get your BB5 and BB10 badges . . .

Nice going on the BB’s - I think we’re walking the same path

Edward Norton wrote:I make sure that they stand alone though, showing every step in each submission, rather than saying ‘oh, I did this on this BB -> link’

↑This!↑

And I've also stacked badge bits, too. Like Edward said, just make sure each BB post has all the required photos in it to make it nice and easy for the certifiers!

Agreed. After all, stacked functions is a permaculture thing. Like Edward & Nicole said just make sure each is properly documented. I saved you a bit of trouble & granted the badges you have already earned. Looks like you're close to BB20!

Mike Barkley wrote:Agreed. After all, stacked functions is a permaculture thing. Like Edward & Nicole said just make sure each is properly documented. I saved you a bit of trouble & granted the badges you have already earned. Looks like you're close to BB20!

Thanks, Mike! I have pending BBs in the pipeline enough for the BB20 badge, so I was just going to wait for those approvals to make the request, but this is neat too.

And with all three of you agreeing on stacking functions, I'll go ahead with that in mind.

I had a couple missteps in my first few BBs, that must have cost judges a little time, but I think I get it all now and will fully document each task in each thread.

I see those in the queue & it looks like enough for your 20. Will try to take care of that tonight. Right now I need to go check some bees & the garden before it rains.

Here's an excerpt from the book FAQ that hasn't been finalized but I think it's close:

Does a 12’ hugelkultur (Straw) also give you credit for the 6’ hugelkultur (Sand)?
Nope.  Unless specifically stated, doing one BB does not partially count towards another BB within that aspect.

Examples:  
Harvesting apples for the Sand badge of Foraging doesn’t count towards the “Forage 100,000 calories” in the Wood badge of Foraging

Baking a pizza for Food Prep Sand could also earn you the “Cook with a Rocket Oven” in Rocket Sand and “Prepare a meal for 8” in the Community Sand badges.  

After growing 1 million calories for Wood you need to grow an additional 4 million calories for Iron

I think a key part is "within that aspect".  

So for Christopher's specific question, I think making the Dakota fire hole and cooking the soup on it could count for both BBs.  I don't think cooking the sunchokes in the soup would count since they're in the same aspect.

Is there a discussion teaching us about how to verify BBs somewhere? I have found myself happy to verify the ones that are obviously complete and correct and taking a pass on ones where I'd have to give pushback to the (probably more experienced than me) permie participant.

I'm interested in the general philosophy that underlies how to do this. But to call out an example, there's a new submission (that I can't judge anyway due to no sand badge, just using it as an example) right now in sand.foraging.prepare a dish that seems right and valid, except that I'm pretty sure that plant isn't the plant that I've been taught to call watercress. Do I care? Am I in a position to judge? Maybe it just looks funny because it's in soil instead of water. Or there are lots of plants called that and she lives somewhere that I never have. Or something else. Am I just judging whether the photos called for are present and show what they're supposed to?

Where's the line in our judgement powers/responsibilities?