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stewards:
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(note:  this document is still under construction - feel free to comment!)

general

Zero glue.  Rarely using metal.  Everything built from logs, branches and sticks.  Nothing starts with dimensional lumber.

Power tools can be okay, but, in general, less power tools.  Some projects specify no power tools.

sand badge

club style mallet (hand tools only)
compound mallet (smaller dry stick goes into bigger green stick (head)) (hand tools only)
carve a big, ugly, nearly useless spoon (hand tools only)
add one horizontal log to berm/hugelkultur scaffolding
dry peg in green wood project (build one):
   - coat hooks (4)
   - half log bench (six feet long) on four legs
   - saw horse
   - saw buck
   - stool
three log bench
two coat hooks made from small trees and the hooks are the branches on these trees
   - no need for any joinery

straw badge

lightweight stool
shaving horse
3 three log benches
carve a nice, lightweight spoon you can eat with
bowsaw frame
decent sawhorse
decent sawbuck
basic heavy kitchen chair with a back

wood badge

shrink pot
japanese chisel box made from a block of firewood
pole lathe
bowl from a pole lathe
honey dipper from pole lathe
lightweight kitchen chair
heavy table
skiddable shed for green woodworking that includes
   - a cleave break and
   - a place to dry wood/pegs
   - storage for a shaving horse and pole lathe
   - storage for mallets and other tools
proenneke hinge - using root wood
really nice door latch
light and excellent bowsaw frame
validate the sand badge of six others

iron badge

light dining room table (no metal or glue)
wood log trough
magnificent roundwood bed
two really nice wood bowls
two really nice wood plates
a steamed wood project
swinging bench in a skiddable structure
outdoor firewood rack
2 nice outdoor chairs
rocking chair
bunk beds
2 more lightweight kitchen chairs
carve 2 large spoons for cooking/serving and 3 small spoons for eating
excellent shaving horse
curtain rods
broom
picnic table without dimensional lumber
   - pretty much an extension of the 3 log bench
   - https://permies.com/t/37509/a/68569/thumb-round-wood-picnic-table.jpg
deck railing
wofati freezer
   - 200 square feet of freezer space
   - 100 square feet of root cellar space
   - at least 7 feet tall
   - large eave
   - cold charging tube for mass
   - logging thermometer records temps below freezing from april through october
validate the straw badge of six others
COMMENTS:
 
gardener
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Question about the "add one horizontal log to berm/hugelkultur scaffolding" item for the sand badge.

It feels out of place compared to all the other items for the sand badge and the other badges. The reason it feels out of place to me is that it requires the construction of something else before someone can start it - in this case the hugel bed or berm.

The other items - unless I missed one - don't seem to require something else to be constructed before being able to start.

I think this could hold up people from getting the sand badge. I know for myself I could do all the other sand badge items fairly easily (some I have done in the past but don't have pics so I think I will redo them - the mallet for example) but while I have a lot of large hugel beds none of them would really benefit from scaffolding. They are all planted fully and turning into nice hedgerows that I don't want to climb up onto - they are meant to be dense enough to keep deer out and all the stuff I would want to harvest are planted down low.

So if I was to try to get this badge I would need to first build a new large berm or hugel bed and then do the scaffolding project. Which is fine if that is what you want people to do - to me it just feels a bit much for the sand badge and out of place compared to the other tasks listed for the sand badge.

So I guess the question is... Do you want people to have to complete part of the sand badge for the growies PEP (the large hugel bed) before they can complete the sand badge for the round wood PEP?
 
master steward
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Question about the "add one horizontal log to berm/hugelkultur scaffolding"  



We added a couple of horizontal logs this year.  It turned out to be an excellent learning experience.  We could use half rotten logs - so they were really easy to shape.   And since it is in the garden where the logs would rot completely in a few years, having things perfect was not a requirement.  

On top of that, the vertical logs are not vertical.  And they never will be.  So you just aren't going to be able to measure things perfectly.  It's just an excellent opportunity to learn so much.  

The first version was more like "do one of these things" but the other things were really weak in comparison.  

We needed a start.   We needed to get the full PEP document up to version 0.7beta and this point was gumming up the works.  

Maybe a few months from now, we will get some good ideas and update this.  But for now:   this is just far too good of an educational tool.

Another possible idea:   suppose a person such as yourself completes 90% of the BBs to get to PEP1.   You might then come by and spend a week in the bootcamp here and knock out that last 10% on the evenings and the weekend.  Or maybe we can have a PEP1 wrap up event that is a weekend thing where a dozen people that are 90% along can come out and wrap up that last 10%.  ??

Or maybe there is another place, much closer to you, that will offer such a weekend?

For now:  I had to let go of coming up with a universal answer in order to be able to move on and come up with a rough draft of the whole program.  I would really love to hear about suggestions for alternatives.  ??
 
Daron Williams
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Sounds good Paul.
 
garden master
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Dibs! I'm making the page about the three log bench
 
garden master
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This. Is. Amazing!

Check out that mallet at 9:05!

 
master steward
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As I was making a tiny green wood stool for my kids' fairies, my husband asked, "How do we keep the wet wood from cracking while drying?"
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Put together!
 
paul wheaton
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How do we keep the wet wood from cracking while drying?



Green wood will check as it dries.  

Keep in mind that a 2x4 will start off green.  When you buy it, it has dried without checks (usually).  Think of it this way, suppose 30 studs all roped together made up a previous 8 foot long log.  If the log was left in tact, then the log would eventually check (crack).  But if we cut the log into the studs, then all of the checking would happen where the cuts are.  

So if your stool is made from a 2x10 that you cut to 9.5 inches (a 2x10 is actually 1.5 inches by 9.5 inches) and then you rounded off the corners, then it probably won't check.  The way it shrinks is unlikely to cause checking.    

But if you have a peeled log that is 9.5 inches in diameter, and you cut off a slice - like you did for the tiny stool, the shrinkage around the circumference will be enough to cause a check.  There is a high probability of checking.  

 
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So, there's no way to prevent it?



The best way to reduce the risk of checking is to dry it SLOWLY.
David F Fisher has some good tips about drying green bowls - he puts them inside a paper bag on a shelf that won't be disturbed for a couple months, then does the finish work after they're dry. I've also had success with drying the item inside a paper bag full of the green shavings you took off the item while shaping it; and I've tried putting the item in a plastic bag that you have to turn inside out every day. (Forgetting the daily part of this gets you mildew.)

If you get a crack anyway - you can prevent further movement by inserting a separate piece of wood across the grain of the crack. Check out the nice butterfly in the post I linked above.
 
paul wheaton
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somehow this seems like the sort of thing for the wood badge.  





source
 
paul wheaton
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an even easier way to get a dowel end:



In that video, he is referring to this video:

 
Nicole Alderman
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I'm wondering if maybe a simple roundwood trellis/arbor/pergola would be good to have at one of the levels, maybe straw? I'm thinking about making a trellis for kiwis over my kid's playpit (to give them a shady place to play in the summer), and it looks like a relatively simple building project...except I don't know how. Would it give a good foundational experience before building a skiddable structure, or would the skills learned in making a skiddable structure be simple enough that one wouldn't need a simpler project before them?

Edited to add: I just gotta say how much I'm loving this roundwood PEP. It's giving me foundational skills that I've always wanted, but didn't even know how to go about getting because I knew NOTHING about the subject. I was like a cave man looking at a circuit board, not even knowing what to learn to gain the skills to understand it. Thank you, Paul (and everyone making Badge Bits!). I've always wanted to make things, and now I actually am.
 
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Some ideas  to keep wood from checking
These were shared with me by old school Bulgarian, now deceased

Avoid wood containing the pith ( center of tree) if possible
Boil green piece  to be worked in water (55 gallon barrel over camp fire) to relieve tension, then slowly air dry

I hope this is helpful

 
Nicole Alderman
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I think Mike Jay has finished all of his Roundwood Badge Bits! Here's a link to all of the posts for this badge.

club style mallet (hand tools only) https://permies.com/wiki/30/98371/PEP-BB-roundwood-sand-club
compound mallet (smaller dry stick goes into bigger green stick (head)) (hand tools only) https://permies.com/wiki/30/99244/PEP-BB-roundwood-sand-compoundmallet#927342
carve a big, ugly, nearly useless spoon (hand tools only) https://permies.com/wiki/30/99344/PEP-BB-roundwood-sand-spoon#932678
add one horizontal log to berm/hugelkultur scaffolding https://permies.com/wiki/99605/PEP-BB-roundwood-sand-scaffolding#931527
dry peg in green wood project (build one):
  - coat hooks (4)
  - half log bench (six feet long) on four legs
  - saw horse
  - saw buck
  - stool https://permies.com/wiki/10/99897/PEP-BB-roundwood-sand-drypegstool#932673
three log bench https://permies.com/wiki/10/99566/PEP-BB-roundwood-sand-bench#929095
two coat hooks made from small trees and the hooks are the branches on these trees https://permies.com/wiki/98655/PEP-BB-roundwood-sand-hook#932675


For those of you who think you've finished a badge, make a post like this on the Badge's thread, with links to all of the ones you've completed! (It's way too easy for us staff to not realize who's done what. So, make a post like this! It's also a great way to double-check that you've actually finished it. I'd thought I'd finished this one, only to realize I'd forgotten about the scaffold!)
 
paul wheaton
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Mike Jay now has the sand badge.
 
steward
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Thanks Nicole and Paul!  You beat me to posting it
 
Nicole Alderman
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So, I'm a bit familiar now with this badge, and thought I'd spotted Leif Ing as having completed the harder badge bits, and thought maybe he'd finished the whole thing. I did my research...

club style mallet (hand tools only) https://permies.com/wiki/30/98371/PEP-BB-roundwood-sand-club#928675
compound mallet (smaller dry stick goes into bigger green stick (head)) (hand tools only)   https://permies.com/forums/posts/preList/99244/930735#930735
carve a big, ugly, nearly useless spoon (hand tools only)   https://permies.com/forums/posts/preList/99344/929529#929529
add one horizontal log to berm/hugelkultur scaffolding https://permies.com/forums/posts/preList/99605/931345#931345
dry peg in green wood project (build one):
   - coat hooks (4)
   - half log bench (six feet long) on four legs
   - saw horse
   - saw buck
   - stool https://permies.com/forums/posts/preList/99897/931143#931143
three log bench https://permies.com/forums/posts/preList/99566/933925#933925
two coat hooks made from small trees and the hooks are the branches on these trees https://permies.com/wiki/98655/PEP-BB-roundwood-sand-hook#930685
   - no need for any joinery

And he DID complete them all. I wanted to push the shiny certification button, and so I did. Leif, you now are the proud owner of the roundwood sand badge!!!
 
pollinator
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Here are the links for my sand badge.
Club Style Mallet
Compound Mallet
Spoon
2 Hooks
Dry Peg Hooks
3 Log Bench
Scaffolding

 
Nicole Alderman
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Mike Jay
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If there's ever the need for another Sand level BB for this badge (or fodder for a list where you need to do 2 of the 8 listed), how about a saddle joint raised bed like Nicole did in step 2 of this post
 
pioneer
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Are we allowed credit for BBs at any level? For example, I need more spoons anyway, so I knock off all spoon BBs at all levels while working toward sand or straw.

Also, can we get BBs for things that were sufficiently documented in the past?
 
Mike Jay
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Hi Michael, I am pretty sure that if you do a BB for a higher level, you'd get certified for it.  Then when you have all the BBs, you'd get that badge.  So it's fine to work ahead.  If the BB isn't fully detailed (like most of the higher level ones currently), it may be hard to predict what their requirements will be.  They are also subject to change until they show up officially.  So there are some caveats...

Yes, you can get certified for things you did in the past as long as the documentation was done.  
 
Nicole Alderman
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Mike Jay wrote:Yes, you can get certified for things you did in the past as long as the documentation was done.  



I can verify this! I'd made a map of my property years ago for a birthday party scavenger hunt for my son. I'd taken a bunch of pictures, and they ended up fitting the Create a Map of Your Property badge bit for the Community badge.
 
paul wheaton
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Mike Jay wrote:If there's ever the need for another Sand level BB for this badge (or fodder for a list where you need to do 2 of the 8 listed), how about a saddle joint raised bed like Nicole did in step 2 of this post




Hmmm ...  

Maybe for the right kind of joint, the sand badge could have a list of "low grade garden log joinery".   So this thing could be on the same list as the scaffolding.   Can you spell out some more details for me and we can go from there?   I do think that the final bed needs to be at least two feet tall, four feet wide and 8 feet long.   I suppose each side would need at least three logs?

 
Nicole Alderman
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I'm actually pretty sure I have lots of process pictures of that garden bed. I did, indeed, use a saddle joint. Let me see if I can find those pictures in case they'd be helpful...

Looks like I never took a close-up of the joint itself. I think that would be important for the badge bit. Probably:

- picture of area before garden bed is built
- progress picture
- close up of the saddle joint
- picture of your completed bed that's at least 4 feet wide and 8 feet long and at 2 feet tall and is three logs high
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Nicole Alderman
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Do the logs need to be 8 feet and 4 feet, or the interior of the bed be that size. I just measured mine, and the logs are 8 and 4 feet, but the interior of the bed is not.

And, I must render a huge thanks to the round working badge, because it--and trying to work on the scaffold--is what taught me how to use a chisel and to make these kinds of joints.
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Mike Jay
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paul wheaton wrote:Maybe for the right kind of joint, the sand badge could have a list of "low grade garden log joinery".   So this thing could be on the same list as the scaffolding.   Can you spell out some more details for me and we can go from there?   I do think that the final bed needs to be at least two feet tall, four feet wide and 8 feet long.   I suppose each side would need at least three logs?


How about the sand badge looking something like this?:

Tool list (make tools you'll use later, simple hacking, some greenwood, some whittling).  Do two of the following:
club style mallet (hand tools only)
compound mallet (smaller dry stick goes into bigger green stick (head)) (hand tools only)

Heavy/ugly joinery list (requires maneuvering bigger logs, joints aren't terribly difficult).  Do two of the following:
add one horizontal log to berm/hugelkultur scaffolding
three log bench
log cabin style raised bed (min 4' wide by 8' long by 2' high and at least three logs high)
gate entry over a ranch entrance

Raise the height of a berm/hugel with a narrow lincoln log planter (min 2' wide by 8' long and three logs high).  Narrower so it can fit on the berm, no height requirement since it's narrower and could tip.  Taller/longer/better than this picture.

Detailed dry peg in green wood project (build one):
  - coat hooks (4)
  - half log bench (six feet long) on four legs
  - saw horse
  - saw buck
  - stool

Whittling project (build two):
two coat hooks made from small trees and the hooks are the branches on these trees
  - no need for any joinery
carve a big, ugly, nearly useless spoon (hand tools only)
 
Nicole Alderman
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I feel that the coat hooks are a whole lot easier than the spoon. Like, they take a beginner at least 1/6th of the time to make as a spoon. The coat hooks are basically just shaving off the bark. My 5 year old son could do this, and he's only carved twice. The spoon takes a LOT more whittling, strength, and precision.  
 
Nicole Alderman
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I also think it's important to make both the compound and simple mallet. They are skills that build upon each other. If someone makes two simple mallets, they don't learn the joint that the the compound mallet teaches. Learning that is really important to roundwood woodworking.

I'm speaking as someone who started at the skill of basic carving and no building experience. Going through all of the step REALLY helped teach the skills I needed to make my pergola and my garden bed. I feel the spoon, mallet, and compound mallet should all be required. And, they're all something useful, and the mallet and compound mallet really come in handy when doing further roundwood.
 
Nicole Alderman
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I'd do something like this:

two coat hooks made from small trees and the hooks are the branches on these trees
 - no need for any joinery
club style mallet (hand tools only)
carve a big, ugly, nearly useless spoon (hand tools only)
compound mallet (smaller dry stick goes into bigger green stick (head)) (hand tools only)

Heavy/ugly joinery list (requires maneuvering bigger logs, joints aren't terribly difficult).  Do two of the following:
 - add one horizontal log to berm/hugelkultur scaffolding
 - three log bench
 - log cabin style raised bed (min 4' wide by 8' long by 2' high and at least three logs high)
 - gate entry over a ranch entrance
 - Raise the height of a berm/hugel with a narrow lincoln log planter (min 2' wide by 8' long and three logs high).  Narrower so it can fit on the berm, no height requirement since it's narrower and could tip.  Taller/longer/better than this picture.

Detailed dry peg in green wood project (build one):
 - coat hooks (4)
 - half log bench (six feet long) on four legs
 - saw horse
 - saw buck
 - stool

(I don't know about the "berm/hugel with a narrow lincoln log planter." I'll leave that to Paul)
 
Mike Jay
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Good points, I like Nicole's layout.  I was attempting to bunch the activities under a framework.
 
Nicole Alderman
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Spent a few hours sweating in the sun, broke the file that my grandfather had turned into a chisel and resorted to handsawing out the notches. In the end, I added 2 more rows. I would like to lie and say this is 2 feet tall, but I'm incapable of lying. It's only 21 inches high at it's highest point. Two feet is a pretty high garden bed! I don't think any of mine--other than my hugels--are that high.
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paul wheaton
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When I look up pics for "saddle joint" on google, I see styles that will work and styles that won't work.  

I think I was assuming there would be a different joint.

I think it needs to be super clear which joint, exactly, is being used.   The one pic you have makes me think that maybe it is the right kind and maybe it is not the right kind.

With a simple saddle joint, the soil will push the logs out and the bed will fall apart.  


 
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Nicole Alderman wrote:Do the logs need to be 8 feet and 4 feet, or the interior of the bed be that size. I just measured mine, and the logs are 8 and 4 feet, but the interior of the bed is not.



Part of me is thinking the interior.  Another part of me thinks that raised beds of this style typically are only 4 feet wide so you can easily reach the middle.  So that means "neither".  

 
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Mike Jay wrote:How about the sand badge looking something like this?



I think I am open to having a list that is for "tight log joinery" where the desired thing is to work with big logs, and to work with joinery that needs to hold something together - or be strong.    And on that list can be several different things.  

The good thing about the scaffolding is that you work with a heavy log, and you joinery is important or the log will fall off.   With the three log bench, if you stand on it, you might get it to wiggle off, or roll off.   You cannot have that with the scaffolding.    With the raised bed, I would want the logs to be bigger than what nicole is using.  Part of the experience is to work with beefy logs.  And then the joinery must be something that the soil and growies won't push out.  "Gate Entry" is possible - but I would need to see the joinery - because what I can see in the pic you provided makes me think the log on the top can slip off.
 
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