Roberto pokachinni

gardener
+ Follow
since Jan 21, 2014
Merit badge: bb list bbv list
Forum Moderator
Roberto pokachinni currently moderates these forums:
Biography
Just a little guy with big ideas, trying to get it done in the Canadian Rockies.
For More
Fraser River Headwaters, Zone3, Lat: 53N, Altitude 2750', Boreal/Temperate Rainforest-transition
Apples and Likes
Apples
Total received
In last 30 days
0
Forums and Threads

Recent posts by Roberto pokachinni

Always use dry wood.  No matter how many times this is written it can not be emphasized more.  Use dry wood, and seasoned as long as possible (two years is best for many species, especially in a cool humid climate-where I grew up on Canada's wet northwest coast it was very important). Wasting your BTU's drying wood inside your woodstove (which is what happens as it burns) is a waste of fuel, and it dramatically increases your risk of a chimney fire by having moisture cling flammable creosote to your upper chimney.

Have wood stored off the ground (I have pallets as the floor in the woodshed), with a good wide roof to keep it dry with lots of airflow.  Make sure your stove, chimney and all it's parts are functioning well.  

Sort your wood in your woodpile/shed so that you have some wood available that burns hot quickly.  Quick-Hot burning wood is often lighter thin wood that is not ideal for a long lasting fire, but is perfect for getting a proper draft going quickly.  That, and having more of the wood's resinous cellular tissue exposed is one of the primary reasons why people split wood into thinner pieces. Red cedar, and brush wood like willow, and branches from poplar trees are perfect for this.  Denser/larger wood is good for a long lasting fire which is efficient when the fire is already going and you want the wood to last a bit longer, but not when initiating it. Splitting that denser wood down to smaller bits helps a lot.  If you live in a very humid place, only split wood down to kindling just before you are going to use it.  Exposing kindling to moist air for an extended period is not in your interest.  Knowing your tree/wood species and the type of fire that they produce is very important if you want to have efficient fires in wood stoves.

As a forest fire fighter and as a kid learning about fire, you come to know that fire needs three things:  Temperature, Fuel, and Oxygen.  You can stop a fire by eliminating any of the three.  To get a fire initiated you need to have these things working for you, not against you.
 
As Ben Z mentioned, the key to getting the fire ripping along quickly at the onset is to have smaller kindling.  There is a reason that matchsticks are thin.  Small, dry, resinous, or less dense wood tends to burn up fast, throwing heat.  Mors Kochanski's book Bushcraft; Outdoor Skills And Wilderness Survival, details lighting fires in the bush including tinder and kindling in much greater quantity than most people would ever consider.  Well, consider it.  If you want your fire ripping hot fast, then this is the way.  Breaking wood into smaller bits, splitting it, etc, helps to expose more surface area/mass to the flames/heat.  Ben Z uses a torch when he can to get his fire started.  A lighter is also more effective than a match, but not nearly as much as a torch, clearly.  For emergency camping I have a small butane torch that is about twice the size of a lighter.

A Bellows  turns any flame or coal into a torch if you know how to use it. Paper and cardboard (particularly if shredded) is your friend as is resinous bark like birch bark, and fatwood works very well too.  Get that fire ripping hot right away, and it will be much easier to have it work efficiently to heat in the coming stages.

A tipi shape channels the most heated air and flames to the central point at it's peak and so is generally most efficient, but a cabin shape burns quite well too.

I find that a rectangular cabin (long in the draft direction, filled with fine material is quite an efficient tinder/kindling set up.  Depending on where your stove's air intake is, and on the size of the firebox, a bed of wood pieces laid out under your fire set up all in parallel to one another and in line with your draft direction can be a better place for your coals to land than in a puffy bed of soft ashes (which should be on the inside base of your firebox to protect it's bottom bricks or stove bottom from overheating, and abuse). Once these get involved in the fire you have a large bed of coals much more quickly and efficiently produced.  This is also a good way to have a fire on deep snow.  

Similarly to Ben's post above, when starting a fire in a woodstove, I put a couple of pieces parallel to the draft flow in the fire but on the outside of the kindling.  This does two things.  The first is that it channels more of the air flow from the air intake to the draft/chimney though the kindling zone, exactly where you need it.  The second is that it preheats the wood, preparing it for starting later.  Somewhat contradicting the idea of channeling all the air in that way, I also put some kindling underneath this wood at the door side edge.  This allows the heat and fire to go underneath it.  The benefit is that getting this wood burning early on will throw heat to the sides of the woodstove where the majority of your fire bricks are.  Getting these bricks hot is partly what makes the stove radiate efficiently.  

Another way to get these bricks hot is to make a kindling fire larger and longer lasting in the first place, eliminating the larger pieces for a while.  A couple stokings of the fire with small fast burning material gets the stove hot faster.  Contrary to the purpose of this thread, THIS IS WASTEFUL-but it gets the stove bricks and stove radiating faster.  This is also helpful if the local weather/atmospheric conditions are not helping your draft get established.  

I use this method only getting a sauna ripping fast or when I lived in a small cabin if I had been away for a day or more and the fire had been out for an extended period.  

When I was a little kid my slightly older friend (aged 6 and 8 I think-left alone!) and I completely filled a woodstove at his place with cedar kindling and paper and lit it up.  Parts of the iron were glowing a frightening red hot really super fast.  I do not recommend doing this EVER!  We were very afraid that we might burn his house down.  I think I was close to tears.  

In addition to this little pyromaniac project being generally extremely irresponsible and super stupid on the parts of us boys, his dad was the fire chief and my dad was the assistant chief which would have not been a very good story for the newspaper or the fire department!  Fortunately, the fire died down quickly as rapid kindling always does, so it was all good in the end and nobody was the wiser.  Phew!  What a relief!  We would have had our asses well tanned for that.  

The added expense of burning more kindling in the case of doing something similar on purpose (and not so ridiculous/extreme/dangerous) was made up by the fact that the rest of the cabin was warmed up that much quicker.  This was particularly of benefit when I was wet or cold or both coming home.  This was NEVER a regular method for home heating needs.  The fire is for you.  Figure out what your needs specifically are in the moment or regularly, and make the fire that suits those needs. But always do it safely.

On that point, a really hot fire is not always what is needed.  You may only require that the fire is radiating at it's hottest for a relatively short period in the day, or perhaps twice a day.  Figure out the best times to have the fire at it's maximum will save you fuel in the end.

Isolate your woodstove room from other rooms that do not need as much heating.  If you have multiple rooms, like a pantry, a bathroom, an entrance room, etc, and they do not have doors, then make a door out of curtains, or a blanket.  Even if they have a door, a curtain or a blank will be helpful. Similarly, cover your windows when they are not providing external thermal solar gain.  A bedroom's ideal temperature  Best Temperature for Sleep Based on Age is not the same as your comfortable room temperature where you hang out during the day or evening.  Find out what your ideal sleeping temperature, put a thermometer in your bedroom and don't heat the room beyond this.

Exercise.  If you are just sitting around at home all day, you will not be generating as much heat within yourself as you would if you were moving about.  A bit more moving around helps to keep your body warm.  It actually doesn't take much to do this, and it is a surprisingly efficient way to feel warmer in a colder space.  Even a chair workout (as done by seniors or movement impaired people) can be good for this.  Having a workout routine is of great benefit to your body heating needs.  Just getting up and doing some deep knee bends and touching your toes engages large muscle groups that have been inactive.  This is quite warming with a series of repetitions with little actual effort or strain.  

The previous statement noted, a comfy upholstered chair will act as a thermal mass holding your body heat that has been radiating and conducting into it.  So the longer that you are sitting in one spot that is acting this way, the warmer you will potentially feel (until you reach some kind of equilibrium with it's potential dynamic potential and it's intrinsic heat loss)  A cat or a small dog, knowing this, will often sit in a chair that was recently left unattended.

Winter isn't T-shirt weather, so wearing sweaters or a hat even indoors will keep your body warm and you do not need to have as hot a fire going.

There are legal requirements when placing wood near a woodstove that a person should know, but they would be similar to the building codes for how close a stove can be from an unprotected wall.  The stove has specific requirements for distance to flammable objects.  At any rate, store some of your next wood-to-be-burned at that distance, which will preheat it (when your wood outside is stored well below freezing this makes a big difference).  

When I was a kid, we had an additional woodshed as a room in our basement.  It was about half the size of an average small bedroom.  This wood was thus preheated to something close to room temperature long before it was burned. After I was around 8 or so, it was my chore to have this woodstove filled with split wood, and kindling prepared at all times.  

Sit near the stove.  In my small cabin, my desk was right beside my stove.  There I could read or write in comfort with the least fire going. I also had a hammock that I could hook up at any time and it swung right in front of the stove.

Drink warm drinks.  Coffee, hot chocolate, tea, herbal brews, broths whatever.  I have a mug of hot spiced cider with me right now.  Warm yourself internally.

A large (canning style) pot of water on top of the woodstove acts as a thermal battery.  If you are living off-grid, this water can be used for washing yourself or dishes, etc.  I've seen a large workshop with several barrels of water near the woodstove.  

A catalytic barrel as part of the chimney also can increase your efficiency by burning up some of that energy that would normally go up and out your chimney.  This image is a double barrel stove which is surprisingly efficient for radiant heat.  We had one of these homemade in my dad's workshop when I was growing up.      Like with most stove systems, these require that a person have some working woodstove knowledge to install and use safely and efficiently.

Fans.  Although fans are using energy, they are an efficient way to move warm air.  An intake tube with a fan at the ceiling above the woodstove that brings that warmest air to the far side of the room at floor level can make a massive difference on how comfortable your room is.  Any fan will help take warmed air that might otherwise be wasted at ceiling level and move it around.  We had a fan from our basement woodstove that blew air upstairs into the living room above and fans internally in the stove walls that sent air out the front.  Figure out where you want your heat and blow it there.  

Maybe I'm weird but I like thermometers.  Having them in multiple rooms allows me to understand what temperatures I actually want them to be at.

Practice and experiment with your wood stove and get to know it.  Each one is different and needs it's own specific techniques.  
2 months ago
Hi Ben.  Thanks for your post and welcome to permies!  I personally haven't experimented yet with this idea.  I do think it has a lot of merit/potential.  


THIS BOOK goes into a lot of different ideas about using char in building and construction materials, including replacing sand in concrete.  



Sounds like you are well on your way to some interesting discoveries.  Thanks for reviving this cool thread.  
4 months ago
I've involved myself with many threads on Permies, and this is one of my favorites.  There are so many thoughtful and insightful posts here about a topic that I love that it just makes me smile so much to revisit it.  Some really good points made recently by Mathew Nistico and others highlight the potential of this thread's topic for further exploration.  Kudos all.  Great work.      
7 months ago
I had no idea that you were struggling with this, Paul.  It is great that you are reaching out for support.

                   *This!*


Bethany Brown wrote:Wow, you are in the middle of a great success story. It sounds to me that your game has been upped.


                             
***************************************


You have already beat this.  Just don't give it a second chance.  All the strength on staying the course, Captain.
hi mike,
I think that if you get through the bark, past the damp cambium, then you will be good.  I can't be certain, but here's my thinking.   Once you get to the more solid wood, you see the growth rings.  Those dark rings represent the winter or slower growing growth every year.  The lighter rings represent the summer or faster growth.  Together they make up one year's growth.  Those growth ring areas should be mostly solid wood and not have much if any real sap flow for the present year.  I could be wrong, because we have different species where I am that behave differently, I'm not familiar with a lot of other species, and it may well be that you have sap flowing through past few years of growth with the type of trees that you have.  I can't be sure.  But I'd guess that just getting through the bark and inner bark would be sufficient.  The best way to know is to try, assuming that you think that it is worth doing, permaculturally, for your purposes.  
9 months ago

Mike Haasl wrote:Do you need to cut through the bark and cambium or all the way through the sap wood?  On my trees, the sapwood is several inches thick.

+4 for "girdling"

That is some serious sapwood, Mike.  What species are you talking about?  it would likely depend on the species on whether it would be effective or not to fail to go all the way through to the wood.   A tree will bleed sap like crazy if it is girdled/ringed/belted.  That sap would be necessary caloric the energy that would otherwise be used to grow leaves dumping down the lower tree to the ground. You'd have to experiment with the specific tree to see if you are cutting deep enough.  If it fails to leaf out, you've gone deep enough.  it may well be that all you need to do is cut into the sapwood all the way around to bleed it out.    
9 months ago
The main resource that I used for my last post was the book Smokescreen, Debunking Wildfire Myths to Save Our Forests and Our Climate by Chad T Hanson.  He was originally a lawyer but then became an ecologist, specializing in wildfire and related ecosystems.  He is from California.  This book is a treasure trove of useful information.   I highly recommend this book to those concerned.  

I got the book through inter-library loan for free.  The book is available on Amazon at This Link
9 months ago
In my area, we've been in Level 4 drought since last summer.  There is a level 5 classification in the North-East of my province which is as bad as it gets.  A few days ago, on March 28th, we got issued an open-fire ban which is the earliest that I remember one.  Last year we had a forest fire started by a farmer burning some slash and debris in a field on May 5th, it was under control and left that night but got back out of control the next day.  It nearly took out the town of Mcbride where I own a house and where my elderly parents live.  Deciduous trees, locals working hard, and the local fire suppression teams kept the fire contained to some rural backyards.  Some infrastructure and vehicles were lost, but no homes.

As was discussed in some detail in other parts of this thread and others, wildfires are a natural part of the ecosystem dynamics of this region, and most forests globally.  

What is not readily understood is that wildfires of extreme size and intensity are not nearly as rare as we have been led to believe.  While we have been suppressing forest fires for many decades on this continent, and biomass in the form of increased forest density, including standing, lying, or leaning dead wood has increased substantially, this is not necessarily an unnatural level (on the millennial scale) of fuel and should not be considered as such.  The animals and forests are adapted to deal with these events.  Remember the Australian wildfires in which it was reported that the animals could not outrun the fires and the fires were the largest in history.  Not history, actually.  Hysterical is more like it.  1974 had a much larger more intense fire season than that, and most of the more recent year's fires were moving at a pace that most animals could avoid.  But the analysis after the fact does not take away from the sensationalization in the moment, or on the capitalization of the situation by industrial interests.    

I've recently been informed by learned colleagues in the ecological community that over the span of the approximately 8000 years since the last glaciation in this region, many intense fires, covering vast areas have burned.  Cycles of intense moisture, which for many decades or centuries produced dense forests and kept large fires from burning are subsequently burned when the cycles are altered toward drier conditions.  The forests, and weather are in a dynamic interplay, and fire is an intrinsic part of the system.  But the most interesting thing about what I have learned is that these dense fuel-rich forests are not actually as flammable as one might think.  In fact, because the wind does not flow through them that fast, fires tend to not be as volatile.  It is weather and climate that created those large historic fires, the fuel which dried as a result, was not really the deciding factor, and it still isn't for many reasons.  

I've had the great pleasure of walking in the recent burn near my house.  The majority of the carbon (or all that big fuel that we were told was going to be a major fire-hazard) is intact, in the standing dead snag trees, or even trees lying on the ground.  Most of what was consumed in the fire was small material, shrubs, smaller branches, and resin-rich needles.  The snag forest, particularly the aspens, are riddled with cavities, which provide an amazing variety of niche habitats.  Even if another fire were to come in this same place in ten years time, most of this large wood would remain unburned.  It is simply a matter of fact that fires do not burn large wood easily.

i've considered changing the name of this thread to get the catastrophic-sounding title out of it.  Sure it is catchy, but sensationalization is a big part of the problem with much of how we understand things, or in this case misunderstand them.  I am as guilty as anybody else in this regard.  I was raised by my parents who were both wildland firefighters (they were part of the local volunteer fire department who, apart from the structural fires that they fought were called upon to fight local forest fires).  I fought fires myself including a very large forest fire near Barrier B.C. in 2003.  I bought into the mythology of the catastrophic mega-fire, and thought that they needed fighting.  I've changed my mind.    

When we say that a forest fire destroyed something, we only see the bad in it.  Wildfires are a natural part of forest rejuvenation.  Post-fire areas are the habitat for multitudinous species, including many migratory songbirds which are literally in an extinction-level crisis of pandemic proportions.  A large wildfire burns at a lot of different intensities, and this effectively creates myriad habitat niches that are not created by any other natural or unnatural cause.  This naturally brings me to the unnatural causes, which are dominated by the paradigm of forest management.  Post-fire logging, or clearcut logging, or even commercial thinning of primary living forest types are examples of management.  

Various levels of government in almost all nations and the logging industry have created a boogeyman out of fires, but also out of insects which are a natural part of a forest's life cycle, and with the boogeyman 'problem', they have the solution, salvage logging.  Doesn't that sound nice? Everybody wants to have salvation, right?  The problem with these unnatural disturbances, besides the fact that they destroy the potential of the forest to have these multitudinous varied, and specific niches, (a state of which is scientifically named heterogeneity) is that they open up the forest to wind, create unnatural heat islands, mechanically impact the ground's stored carbon reserves and the fine living structures that sequester carbon, and they bulk remove carbon from the forests that are necessary for ecosystem dynamics.  They also generally pile up the larger wood that they deem unuseful for lumber purposes and burn it (or more recently truck it to be burned in biomass power plants), and leave a scattering of broken smaller branches as 'slash' on the ground which acts as kindling.  

These cut-down areas are often replaced with unnatural speciations of single-aged conifers which become ladder-fuel-rich, crown-fire-prone,  hazards.  In short, the science has repeatedly shown, that it is the logging practices and clearing practices of the last hundred years that have created the firestorm situation and the large scale of these fires is attributed solely to that, and not the density of the primary forest's fuels.  Humans need to be managed, not forests.   Ecological and biogeographical fire science indicates all this to be true, but the forest industry lobbyists and the governments who stand to gain from logging do not want to hear it, ignore it, or defame it and the people who bring this information forward at all costs.  It is these logging practices that accelerated the fire risk that took so many lives and homes in California in the past years are the result of human decisions, not because of the forests needing more management.  it is a fact, that the townspeople of Paradise and Concow were ensured by government and industry that they should allow large-scale logging in the surrounding forests because it would reduce the threat of wildfires.

There are three factors that could have saved those lives and homes:  

One is fire-smarting the houses.  This is done by the government paying for non-flammable roofs and siding, multi-paned glass, and attic vents that can resist embers.   This also includes ensuring that gutters are clean of flammable debris, that dog doors are secured, and that if water is available, rooftop sprinklers are put in place.  The area around them is cleared and pruned, creating at least a 100-foot area that is easy to defend with no dry material.  

Two is that instead of fighting wildfires deep in the forests, focus most of that money on fighting fires that are right against towns.  

And the third is to train local able-bodied people in the safe control and fighting of wildfires.  

This seems like a lot of government money being put out there, right? ...but the wildfire budget is very high, and this would take a fraction of it to do properly.    

We seriously need to reconsider what we are allowing to be done in our forests and watch for the scary words that are used to normalize them in our minds and the minds of the media-frenzied masses.  Permaculture was founded with a guiding principle that the wilderness, or the Earth should be largely left alone to care for itself and that we should be managing our human habitat areas in a zone model.  Zone 0 is the house.  Start there.                  
9 months ago