Phoenix Arizona: Making the Salt River Run Again!

OK - this post is about a dream I have. I have it all the time. I want to see the Salt River, which runs through metro Phoenix Arizona to run again. In my lifetime (say in 20 yrs). It doesn't have to be a lot. Heck - it doesn't even have to "run" per se. Just have some surface water that is large enough and protected enough that it doesn't go underground for most of the year.

The Salt River watershed is large and some of it does run all the time. By the time it gets to downtown Phoenix, where I am, it is either an ephemeral spring, and isolated riparian area, or usually, a subsurface waterway. I believe that with enough upstream soakage in "urban swales", green infrastructure, infiltration pits and the like, that we could start to rehydrate the soils of the central core of Phoenix enough so that some reaches the Salt River and we start to build the underground water reserves. Eventually, this underground water may emerge in places.

Projects like the ones Watershed Management Group does in Tucson and Phoenix are recharging groundwater and rehydrating soils. With enough of these types of projects, I believe the dream could be a reality.

I realize this would involve:
--understanding the Salt River Watershed more thoroughly
--understanding current recharge activities
--changes in policy favoring green infrastructure over grey infrastructure (already happening in Tucson and starting now in Phoenix)
--a concerted effort in education and hands-on learning and possibly the creation of some green jobs

I would love to hear your thoughts.

That's a tall order. Roosevelt Lake is only 45% full, how can you possibly get any recharge of the watershed when the lake is that low?

First thing is to get beyond the current drought and get some water in the area, like maybe a couple of back-to-back El Nino years.

John Elliott : Obviously, a large amout of key line plowing should not be done if it will in anyway endanger the ground cover, or its grip on the soil, however if Mr Saliden
was right about multiple species being the way to restore previously dead Soils, and yes i do understand about the other inputs beyond just the hooves, than I think that
some good work can be done getting ready for more waterfrom the dam, and what about local rains,that usually run off in minutes, we don't have to wait on every thing!

Over 200 years ago beaver were traped out of the Salt watershed ! Has anyone looked for environmentally suited niches ? just my two cents Big Al !

Yep - it's a damn tall order.

And I wasn't necessarily thinking of going too far up upstream in the watershed but slowing and soaking water near the bottom of the watershed.

Where I live in Phoenix is about 2 miles from the Salt River (bed). If a large number of micro soakage areas (in people's yards - with infiltration pits, or along streetscapes with green infrastructure or "sponge parks") were implemented, my thinking (only a theory as I am no hydrologist) is that:
--we would first start rehydrating the soil in the areas immediately upstream of the river bed
--eventually (years later, surely) there would be a rise in the water table and low spots in the river bed would start to form ephemeral ponds
--years after that, perhaps there would be enough moisture to have an area that stays wet all year 'round.

All areas of the watershed need work. The thing is, you can work on them separately and still obtain a better yield that what we get by simply letting our extreme rain events cause dangerous flooding and dump themselves into the Salt River, taking out bridges in some instances and further eroding soils. "Slow and sink" perhaps combined with some "leaky dams" (gabions) and other ideas could build up the water table again.

Honestly - I don't think we have a choice NOT to do this. Tucson is in the process of trialing it right now.

As an aside - a similar methodology is being used to soak storm water into the water table and divert it from going down overtaxed sewage drains in Brooklyn which then allows raw sewage to overflow into streets. (National Geographic, Nov 2013 p. 19-20)

What is currently happening with the effluent from sewage treatment ? If that water were used to grow cottonwoods along the river, beavers could be introduced during a wet year. A series of gabion walls curved against the current on the same arc that beavers prefer, could begin the process. Once introduced, beavers could finish and maintain the dams.

Storm sewer dump zones could be converted to rain gardens that slowly release water to the river during flood events. Shading of the river banks will go a long way toward preserving moisture. Tall trees planted at each outfall garden would cast some shade and provide the beavers with wood.

It may be possible to spread or inject bentonite clay into the riverbed to reduce porousity. In the interim, while water levels are building but it's not a proper river, The surface could be covered with vegetable oil or other safe substances which reduce evaporation. This will also prevent mosquito population explosions during times when there are big pools but no flow.

Steps could be taken to reduce the amount of wind that blows over the water and banks. Thickets of salt and drought tolerant riparian bushes would help.

Dale - good thoughts!

Phoenix is doing some pretty cool things with water and I know there are several recharge sites around the metro area and they are definitely making headway.

One of the things that's lacking though is the "slow and spread" of stormwaters off all the hardscape.

Shading of the river banks will go a long way toward preserving moisture. Tall trees planted at each outfall garden would cast some shade and provide the beavers with wood.

You know what's really sad about this? Much of the water that would go into the Salt river is diverted throughout Phoenix by a system of canals. At one point, a multitude of trees flourished along these canals and they were popular picnic sites and green spaces. Then at some point, it was determined that too much moisture was being lost to the trees so they sealed the canals, effectively killing the trees, the green spaces and the "community" aspect these spaces fulfilled. Now there are asphalt bike paths along the canals. Hardly any trees at all. And guess what? Due to high evaporation, the water is more and more saline. And more polluted because there is no vegetation to filter it. Now the canals are dumping grounds for old shopping carts, tires, etc. Makes me want to tear my hair out.

We need more trees in general in Phoenix - ones adapted to our climate - to help slow and clean our stormwater. And we need to direct more greywater to the landscape. After Nov. 9th I will have only one water source in my house (bathroom sink) that does not vent to the landscape. There should be more of this - and use of safer detergents.

So much to do. But so worth it.

Jennifer
and Dale : O.K., I originally came to Permies to talk about Rocket Mass Heaters RMHs, and now I have less and less time in my life, and more and more Good People to Help !

And I need several new and different vocabularies, to go with a whole new Heap of Skill Sets I am developing ! So, for the rest of us, who wants to define :
Slow and spread, recharge sites,Climate/environment adapted I Think thats obvious, but, to too many people grey water is what is left after you wash your face, and needs to
be quickly drained, out of sight, out of mind (Or, have no clue at all )! Is it insensitive to point out how fast peoples eyes glaze over, when you mention Sewage Treatment, and
if it's done right there shouldn't be an effluent,Right? That Is what we have the City Fathers for, Right? and what is a flocculate? Storm Sewer Dump Zones, whats the punch line,
should the kids leave the room? infiltration PITS? N.I.M.B.Y.!!, Sponge parks, don't my kids watch too much of that on T.V. now !? A rise in the water table, I'm from back East
-but I Know thats Bad, Right?

Sorry, my thoughts on a dialog about vocabulary words that will sound esoteric to many ears turned into a Rant ! I remember the trees along the canals, sorry to hear they are
gone and not replaced ! for theCrafts, for the Good ! Big AL!

Dale Hodgins wrote: This will also prevent mosquito population explosions during times when there are big pools but no flow.

Not to worry about mosquitoes in the desert, Dale. As a kid, I would go fishing at lakes on the various golf courses in the area (that was the only water around, and they stocked them) and didn't see a mosquito or get bit once. Even along the Colorado river, where there is a year-round flow of water, there is not much of a mosquito problem. Something about humidity in the single digits makes it so that any mosquito flying around quickly turns into a sun-dried mosquito.

Jennifer, I'm surprised at what you said about the canals being sealed. About 30 years ago, I remember living near Central and Camelback and once a week there would be irrigation water from the canal to keep the yards green. At that time, they were appreciative of what the Tohono O'odham had left and were still glad to use it. I suppose as urban sprawl covered an area far in excess of what the canals could support, they became, like you say, a dumping ground and an eyesore.

And you are right about stormwaters not being well handled. Even in Las Vegas, where they have designed in 40 acre impounds, they forgot one minor detail: how to get the stormwater to flow INTO the impound. One time I was stuck at a flooded intersection, with water coursing along the street, looking at the inadequately sized culvert trying to divert some water into the impound, but only to be blocked by debris that was covering it.

Is there any group there in Phoenix, government or NGO, that is giving away (or selling at very reduced cost) trees like palo verde and desert ironwood? They are the kind that would do well planted even in the floodplain of the Salt river. And it's so easy to start them, you can use any sort of plastic pot and all they need for the first three years or so is some TLC in the way of regular watering. Once they are about 3 years old, you can plant them out and they will survive, because that is the climate they are adapted to.

John Elliott wrote:Not to worry about mosquitoes in the desert, Dale. As a kid, I would go fishing at lakes on the various golf courses in the area (that was the only water around, and they stocked them) and didn't see a mosquito or get bit once. Even along the Colorado river, where there is a year-round flow of water, there is not much of a mosquito problem. Something about humidity in the single digits makes it so that any mosquito flying around quickly turns into a sun-dried mosquito.

Unfortunately, Phoenix has been beset by West Nile mosquitos for about 9 years now if memory serves and because there were some deaths, the various cities in the metro area started a "fogging" program. I'm not sure if the fogging program still continues or was one of the things that got cut in the budget crisis, but the whole issue caused quite an uproar in the local permie/gardening community and amongst those with health concerns.

John Elliott wrote:Jennifer, I'm surprised at what you said about the canals being sealed. About 30 years ago, I remember living near Central and Camelback and once a week there would be irrigation water from the canal to keep the yards green. At that time, they were appreciative of what the Tohono O'odham had left and were still glad to use it. I suppose as urban sprawl covered an area far in excess of what the canals could support, they became, like you say, a dumping ground and an eyesore.

You know - I don't recall exactly when they started doing this. I came to Phoenix in 1993 and it was done well before then. I'm sure it took some time given the extensive network of canals that exist. Not all canals are treated poorly. A friend and architect, Nan Ellin, taught at ASU and one of her big projects was to revitalize the canalways. I mean, seriously, here we have these beautiful waterways that have deep, historical roots flowing through some of the most interesting parts of the Valley. Why not enhance that? So several cities (downtown Scottsdale being the most visible) have started developing the canalways commercially and adding greenscapes - however, I believe the vegetation is being watered by municipal water rather than feeding directly from the still-sealed canals. And there's still not enough overhanging vegetation even in those areas because a) most desert trees are really glorified shrubs and not super tall and b) they are planted too far from the banks - so the water does not benefit from being shaded/protected from evaporation.

John Elliott wrote:And you are right about stormwaters not being well handled. Even in Las Vegas, where they have designed in 40 acre impounds, they forgot one minor detail: how to get the stormwater to flow INTO the impound. One time I was stuck at a flooded intersection, with water coursing along the street, looking at the inadequately sized culvert trying to divert some water into the impound, but only to be blocked by debris that was covering it.

Oopsie! Yeah - you think, "this is old technology" - I mean, really, this is the stuff our forebearers used to deal with water runoff, etc. But so much useful stuff gets forgotten. I guess it takes a few glaring mistakes to bring things to the forefront. Water will do what water wants to do. You have to work with it or you're in for some frustrating times. In Phoenix too, there are inadequate storm drains and because it rains so infrequently, there's lots of debris that clogs what few drains we have. (see pic below of the lower end of my neighborhood after a 1" rain event).

John Elliott wrote:Is there any group there in Phoenix, government or NGO, that is giving away (or selling at very reduced cost) trees like palo verde and desert ironwood? They are the kind that would do well planted even in the floodplain of the Salt river. And it's so easy to start them, you can use any sort of plastic pot and all they need for the first three years or so is some TLC in the way of regular watering. Once they are about 3 years old, you can plant them out and they will survive, because that is the climate they are adapted to.

As a matter of fact, both of our electrical suppliers - APS and SRP do give away trees for people to plant in the solar arcs around their homes for utility saving purposes. And you're right - these trees are well adapted to our climate and will thrive. However, down near the river bed, Palo Verdes can suffer from too much water and are like a pioneer species giving way to mesquite boscs and cottonwoods as the soil becomes more hydrated. I've actually killed a palo verde through (accidental) over watering. Craziness! But what beautiful trees!

allen lumley wrote:Jennifer and Dale : O.K., I originally came to Permies to talk about Rocket Mass Heaters RMHs, and now I have less and less time in my life, and more and more Good People to Help !

So, for the rest of us, who wants to define :
Slow and spread, recharge sites, Climate/environment adapted I Think thats obvious, but, to too many people grey water is what is left after you wash your face, and needs to be quickly drained, out of sight, out of mind (Or, have no clue at all )! Is it insensitive to point out how fast peoples eyes glaze over, when you mention Sewage Treatment, and if it's done right there shouldn't be an effluent,Right? That Is what we have the City Fathers for, Right? and what is a flocculate? Storm Sewer Dump Zones, whats the punch line, should the kids leave the room? infiltration PITS? N.I.M.B.Y.!!, Sponge parks, don't my kids watch too much of that on T.V. now !? A rise in the water table, I'm from back East -but I Know thats Bad, Right?

Hey Big Al!

I got a good giggle from your post - and yeah, I hear you! Talking about waste and effluvia....mmmmmmm! =) Although the vocabulary is valid and is used in water and waste professions, I can definitely see where it would be off-putting to some. I guess it's invisible to me because I grew up with it. It would be fun to think of ways of "prettying up" the language around this topic. It might get a whole new group of people interested.

So - some background on me - I am the daughter of a Civil Engineer who specialized in water and waste management. I am originally from Utah but grew up mostly in Africa (Somalia, Kenya, Lesotho) because my dad worked for various USAID projects. From a young age I was exposed to pumping stations, waste water treatment facilities, leach fields and grey/black water reclamation in the landscape, etc. I got to see first hand the value of repurposing waste streams and the abundance that could come from this, AND the problems that could arise. It was fascinating, even to a young child (or maybe I was just odd??)

As for the water table - yep - in some parts of the East, that would be a bad thing. However, in just about anywhere West of the Mississippi, we desperately need to raise the water table (think of the devastation done to the Ogallala aquifer). I am not more than 2 miles from the middle of the Salt River in downtown Phoenix - and the water table here (one of the shallowest in Phoenix due to the proximity to the bottom of the watershed) is 81 ft. Whole areas outside of Tucson have collapsed several feet because perched aquifers were depleted and the soils dried out and gave way. Craziness. And it's happening all over the West.

This has turned into a rather interesting discussion - thanks everyone and keep it coming!

Jennifer Wadsworth wrote:OK - this post is about a dream I have. I have it all the time. I want to see the Salt River, which runs through metro Phoenix Arizona to run again. In my lifetime (say in 20 yrs).

I say do everything to try and achieve your dream. You and the area of Phoenix have everything to gain and nothing to lose. Be patient with yourself and do little steps to make it happen.

Wikipedia has a good write up on how beavers change the environment. --- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaver
This excerpt concerns water storage in drought conditions. --- Beaver ponds increase stream flows in seasonally dry streams by storing run-off in the rainy season, which raises groundwater tables via percolation from beaver ponds. In a recent study using 12 serial aerial photo mosaics from 1948 to 2002, the impact of the return of beaver on open water area in east-central Alberta, Canada found that the mammals were associated with a 9-fold increase in open water area. Beaver returned to the area in 1954 after a long absence since their extirpation by the fur trade in the nineteenth century. Even during drought years, where beaver were present, there was 60% more open water than those same areas during previous drought periods when beaver were absent. The authors concluded that beaver have a dramatic influence on the creation and maintenance of wetlands even during extreme drought. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's an unorthodox idea for dealing with flash flooding where the soil is water repellant. I wonder if some sort of wetting agent could be applied to dry land as a means of encouraging water to soak in more readily. This is done when herbicides are applied, so it would seem doable for other purposes. There may be native berries or other plants which saponify and break surface tension. These plants could be mowed down in anticipation of heavy rain. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The rather level nature of urban lots that slope gently toward the street, tends to prevent on site percolation of rainfall. If every lot within 5 miles of the river were required to have a dish shaped rain garden large enough to handle all of the roof and other hard surface runoff, the entire city and the river would benefit.

Here on Vancouver Island, I've been to many neighborhoods that have no storm sewers. The annual deluge runs to seasonal ponds that occupy back yards and wetlands. I built a house 35 feet from one of these. There was never any danger of the house flooding since it sat 2 ft. higher than an overflow ditch which directed the water to a much larger seasonal wetland in a farm field. When I dug a pond to store some of this water, we broke through the hardpan layer into a gravel band and the 3/4 acre pond drained away quickly after each rain. I consulted with neighbors on whether they wanted me to fix the problem, but all agreed that the drain was welcome. I never lined the pond and it disappeared by May in most years. The ditch sent less water to the distant wetland. We were a cluster of about 20 houses and all relied on wells for our water. Some of them had wells under 100 ft. deep that were prone to running dry in September. Within a couple years, mine would sit 20 ft. below the surface in spring and never go below 60 ft. in September. We completely recharged our little aquifer in two seasons. This is the best thing that I've ever done completely by accident.

I find it very strange that areas with much lower rainfall, go to great lengths to quickly flush every drop of moisture to the river, lake or ocean, when the place to store that water is in the ground. Every park in dry cities like yours, should contain percolation ponds, rain gardens or whatever name sells. Some of this water will leak into the river, but it will do it slowly and not contribute to floods. The land surrounding rain gardens are a natural spot to grow trees that might not naturally survive in a desert environment.

The question is not "how do we fix the river" but "how do we get the city on side to take these steps which will absolutely improve the river and the whole region's ability to gather and retain soil moisture". If most rain that falls on your city were absorbed into the soil, the river would come back in some form on it's own. With the addition of beavers, who are helped along by some man made earth works, this could happen quickly. As John mentioned, a couple El Nino years. If the landscape were sculpted to take advantage of the next deluge, decades worth of depletion could be reversed.

Dale Hodgins wrote:The rather level nature of urban lots that slope gently toward the street, tends to prevent on site percolation of rainfall. If every lot within 5 miles of the river were required to have a dish shaped rain garden large enough to handle all of the roof and other hard surface runoff, the entire city and the river would benefit.

Yep - that's pretty much what I'm trying to promote - knowing your property's "watershed" and how to manage both rain and greywater.

Dale Hodgins wrote:I find it very strange that areas with much lower rainfall, go to great lengths to quickly flush every drop of moisture to the river, lake or ocean, when the place to store that water is in the ground. Every park in dry cities like yours, should contain percolation ponds, rain gardens or whatever name sells. Some of this water will leak into the river, but it will do it slowly and not contribute to floods. The land surrounding rain gardens are a natural spot to grow trees that might not naturally survive in a desert environment.

It's damn strange if you ask me!! You are absolutely correct in your assessment of the problem and the solution.

Dale Hodgins wrote:The question is not "how do we fix the river" but "how do we get the city on side to take these steps which will absolutely improve the river and the whole region's ability to gather and retain soil moisture". If most rain that falls on your city were absorbed into the soil, the river would come back in some form on it's own. With the addition of beavers, who are helped along by some man made earth works, this could happen quickly. As John mentioned, a couple El Nino years. If the landscape were sculpted to take advantage of the next deluge, decades worth of depletion could be reversed.

Again - this is what I'm talking about! And the city is starting to notice. But it's going to be slow going until some kind of critical mass is achieved. Just like anything else. People have to wake up to the fact that they actually LIVE in a DESERT first. We are so sheltered from that fact by air conditioning, cheap water piped in from the Colorado and this idea that we should seal dusty surfaces instead of planting them/mulching them/using them as rain gardens or bioswales or some other useful thing.

El nino years will help - obviously - but we still need to address "slow and spread" issues to infiltrate the water into the ground where it falls. Otherwise more rain is just a damaging deluge instead of a bringer of abundance.

Dale - you have me interested in the role of beavers now. It's something that I never even considered here in Phoenix until this discussion.

Thank you to everyone who has responded and will respond - I feel....like it might be possible to make a positive difference in this area. That maybe the Salt River will run again!

Key line plowing is another tool for getting rain water into the soil.

Miles Flansburg wrote:Key line plowing is another tool for getting rain water into the soil.

I do a sort of primitive "keyline" in my property both at the bottom of infiltration pits/swales and across the raised areas of the yard. I basically just sink a shovel into the ground and make a series of deep crevices. I've also used a power water tool to bore holes about 3 ft deep and 2 inches in diameter around the yard. I fill these up with woodchips to act as micro vertical French drains - it seems to improve the hard-packed clay soil.

I would be really interested in having a greater understanding of the applications of keyline, holistic range management and imprinting to improve broad, degraded landscapes. I am also really interested in leaky dams/gabions and their ability to rehydrate the soil.

So many interesting things to know!

Brett Andrzejewski wrote:I say do everything to try and achieve your dream. You and the area of Phoenix have everything to gain and nothing to lose. Be patient with yourself and do little steps to make it happen.

Brett - thanks for the kind words of encouragement. Sometimes when you dream big - well it's hard to find anyone to say "go for it!" with any kind of enthusiasm. I completely agree that we have everything to gain and nothing to lose. Baby steps will get us there.

Jennifer, There are many youtube videos about key line. Here is one I ran across a while back that was really impressive.



Owen Hablutzel , a permie!, does the presentation.

Thanks Miles! I will definitely check it out as it's something that interests me greatly. I'll let you know what I think. I just need to rest up the old eyeballs to be able to watch a screen for that long (I have a vision disability).

This just in: Phoenix has been trying to repair/increase riparian areas within the city limits, along the Salt River, for several years. A friend of mine who attends the Phoenix Riparian Council meetings just informed me that beavers are starting to move back into the area!! However, he noted that the Riparian Council was somewhat dismayed by this (!!) because the beavers were using nearby cottonwood trees to make dams. I guess even the Riparian Council is challenged by understanding hydrology cycles.

Jennifer, as has been done for ages, some will see the beaver chopping down all of the trees and want to trap them out. My property has several ancient dams, but the ranchers trapped the beaver all out years ago. Now there is erosion.

Might there be a local beaver expert who could start to educate around this issue?

Excellent thought, Miles. I will put feelers out to see who might fulfill that need. I wish I was a better artist - I would create an animation showing the ultimate benefit of having beavers back on the Salt River. I think people become alarmed when they see an ecosystem looking like it's going into chaos when really it's trying to balance itself out again.

I am sorry about your lack of beavers and the subsequent erosion. It's frustrating that we never seem to learn to work WITH nature.

Jennifer Wadsworth wrote:Yep - it's a damn tall order.

And I wasn't necessarily thinking of going too far up upstream in the watershed but slowing and soaking water near the bottom of the watershed.

Where I live in Phoenix is about 2 miles from the Salt River (bed). If a large number of micro soakage areas (in people's yards - with infiltration pits, or along streetscapes with green infrastructure or "sponge parks") were implemented, my thinking (only a theory as I am no hydrologist) is that:
--we would first start rehydrating the soil in the areas immediately upstream of the river bed
--eventually (years later, surely) there would be a rise in the water table and low spots in the river bed would start to form ephemeral ponds
--years after that, perhaps there would be enough moisture to have an area that stays wet all year 'round.

All areas of the watershed need work. The thing is, you can work on them separately and still obtain a better yield that what we get by simply letting our extreme rain events cause dangerous flooding and dump themselves into the Salt River, taking out bridges in some instances and further eroding soils. "Slow and sink" perhaps combined with some "leaky dams" (gabions) and other ideas could build up the water table again.

Honestly - I don't think we have a choice NOT to do this. Tucson is in the process of trialing it right now.


As an aside - a similar methodology is being used to soak storm water into the water table and divert it from going down overtaxed sewage drains in Brooklyn which then allows raw sewage to overflow into streets. (National Geographic, Nov 2013 p. 19-20)

I had heard about a project in Africa involving a 9miles wide strip of trees spanning the entire continent so as to re-green areas desertified. Trees are amazing water catchment systems. I say that because your idea is a wonderful piece to a larger puzzle that can be put together with other ideas concerning Salt River restoration.

You say you've dreamed of restoring the Salt River. I had the same dream a few months back. A real dream, as tangible as my imagination could allow. I dreamed of trees all along the banks of a gushing river in the middle of a desert. Maybe my mind was up to something, or perhaps I am foolish to believe that trees could ever be put to work in this way. If something like this would work, it could be used in concert with your idea to further aide the Salt River flow. Maybe.

Anyway, keep in touch. I'm moving to Arizona soon and plan on learning from other restoration projects all around.

~Calder, permaskills@gmail.com

Just stumbled upon this post, and was curious if anyone has updates?  I'm not there but am fascinated by all of this watershed stuff...

I'm pretty sure it's running.