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a moose as a draft animal

 
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This came in my email tonight.



Only in Alaska .......

This guy raised an abandoned moose calf with his
Horses, and believe it or not, he has trained it for lumber removal and
Other hauling tasks. Given the 2,000 pounds of robust muscle, and the
Splayed, gripper hooves, he claims it is the best work animal he has. He
Says the secret to keeping the moose around is a sweet salt lick,
Although, during the rut he disappears for a couple of weeks, but always
comes home..... Impressive!!

Now, there is bound to be some moron out there that will raise some issues with the treatment of wild animals.  However, I say to them; "If the Moose keep coming back, what's the problem?"




draft_moose.jpg
[Thumbnail for draft_moose.jpg]
 
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According to a little google, that moose is considered to be an urban legend. I have a pretty good eye for things photoshopped, a number of things caught my eye in this photo and made me suspicious. The main thing was the way the harness fits around the moose's head & antlers. I looked at that picture and seriously wondered HOW they got that harness (also known as a bridle) around his head and antlers. Having put one on an uncooperative horse many times, I know how difficult it can be. Combine that with antlers, well I just couldn't imagine.


Here's a link regarding this:

http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_work_moose_in_harness.htm

Near the end of this link, it does mention that moose were used in the past as draft animals & there are a couple of pictures.
 
                                
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Moose also have that thing that connects their head to their body, what's it called? A neck.
It's a good idea tho. With those long legs they could lean into a load better than a mule.
 
                          
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in my younger days it was always dont believe everything you read, now thanks to photo shop its also dont believe everything you see aswell
 
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looks pretty shopped to me also but it is still a fun one! I hadn't seen that one yet. I suppose if a moose could be domesticated it would make an excellent draft animal in certain situations!

however I expect that if they had the temperment suitable for domestication someone at some point would have managed it. aren't moose a bit more solitary in comparison to equines, cattle and reindeer? they probably don't have the innate herd and social behavior to make them good candidates. but who knows?
 
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The first time I saw that picture, the story said it was in Maine, but yes, it does look photoshopped to me!

As Leah said, moose are generally solitary animals (you seldom see more than one unless it's a cow with calves), and are not as amenable to domestication as herd animals are.  Actually, when you think of it, it seems like all of our domestic animals wild relatives run in packs, flocks, or herds -- even domestic cats are social animals.  I have heard of one or two being made pets of and even ridden, so I don't think it's necessarily that they have a bad temperament, just that they don't have the social behaviors that would enable them to fit into a human 'economy.'

Kathleen
 
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This story is FALSE according to Snopes.

 
Gwen Lynn
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How did you find that on snopes? It was the first place I went to see if it was false (I was very skeptical), but I guess I wasn't using the best search terms. I googled it instead and found it to be an urban legend aka false. The link I found (posted earlier on this thread) did go on to say that there were occasions in history where moose had been used for this purpose, and very old pictures were posted there. Here's one that doesn't look photoshopped to me:



The unusual beasts of burden pictured here were a pair of moose, hand-raised by owner Peachy Prouden. The photo was taken at Athabasca Landing, Alberta in 1898.

Courtesy of the Jasper Yellowhead Museum and Archives

moose.jpg
[Thumbnail for moose.jpg]
 
Ken Peavey
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first attempt was 'draft moose' got nothing
2nd attempt 'moose' offered several hits, the above link was about the 9th down.
 
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Ahh, I just got impatient with my pathetic efforts. I love snopes, & use it often. Will be a little more persistent next time. Thanks!
 
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not only is the harness photoshopped on the moose, the moose is photoshopped onto the background.
 
Leah Sattler
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that is a cool old pic gwen! hard to photo shop those 

we should start a thread of fun urban legends, especially with photo shopped stuff. there was one email I recieved showing a donkey (I think it was a donkey) that was killing a cougar with a little story behind it about how it saved them or their horse or something while they were trail riding. my suspicion was it was photoshopped but I always had a little bit of me that wondered. knowing how incredibly dangerous and violent equines can be when they are ticked off, and also knowing that donkeys/mules are considered especially protective and intelligent about such things......I will have to hunt for that...
 
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Yeah, that was a cool forward with the donkey and the cougar. I studied on it for a long time and really didn't think it was photoshopped, but it could have been. Maybe I can find it on snopes.
 
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The Soviets did some work with moose domestication in the 1930's and are still working with the idea in the present.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kostroma_Moose_Farm
 
Leah Sattler
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moose milk 

they are certainly one of the more interesting creatures. I have never seen one in person but they sure appear massive from the pics. 

I wonder how many animals have been "purposely" domesticated by modern man. horses, cattle, reindeer, sheep, dogs, cats, ferrets  etc.......were likely rather serendipitous domestications but i guess we'll never really know.

lets see.....I am not well informed but some guesses would be...

emu/ostrich - famous for depleting peoples pocket books as a scam. I'm not so sure they would qualify as being domesticated. just raised in captivity.

possibly some furbearers? mink? chinchilla? i don't know their history.

I read an article once about how quickly ?fox? could be "domesticated" and develop the traits of a domestic dog. I think the researchers were suggesting that our modern dogs were more closely related to them then other wild canids. 


 
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Moose are typically very friendly when they are first weened (although a year old bull got separated from his mother a bit early and was very angry with me about it about three weeks ago, stamping his front hooves into the ground and following me for about 300 feet. It is fairly common for people to get yearlings following them, especially here in the city, and they are cooperative at first, but get more stubborn and willful as time goes on.
 
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Emerson White wrote:
Moose are typically very friendly when they are first weened (although a year old bull got separated from his mother a bit early and was very angry with me about it about three weeks ago, stamping his front hooves into the ground and following me for about 300 feet. It is fairly common for people to get yearlings following them, especially here in the city, and they are cooperative at first, but get more stubborn and willful as time goes on.



Are you talking about children or moose? 
 
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Moose-children, if you encounter a people=child with hooves this should be a warning sign that something is seriously wrong with the way you live your life/kind of people you have let surround your self.
 
Fred Morgan
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Emerson White wrote:
Moose-children, if you encounter a people=child with hooves this should be a warning sign that something is seriously wrong with the way you live your life/kind of people you have let surround your self.



Not referring to hooves, but referring to they get more difficult to handle with age. 
 
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Oh yes moose children would indeed be a mysterious thing, like meeting coyote woman, you would not know which would be worse to have them like you or dis- like you, either way it may be best to pretend you did not notice them & be on your way.

My husband just came home with some moose dropping incense from the farmers market, I had heard of natives burning droppings of bison & of Moose dropping being used in place of sage for smudging when sage was not on hand but I did not know that the tradition had made it to the farmers market.


I do remember a legend about moose riding being illegal because of bank robbers using moose as get away transportation. I have no idea if it was true nor do I recall where I heard it...David Letterman show perhaps???
 
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I found this info:

The domestication of moose for agriculture purposes was adopted when the Pechora-llych Nature Reserve started a moose domestication program. The program has changed and evolved until 1963 when it became the Kostroma Moose Farm. Today the moose is bred in Russia, as a source of milk. The milk is often sued as a treatment for peptic ulcers and is rich in vitamins. The moose are not raised for meat as the cost to raise the moose far exceeds the payback for their meat.

The farmed moose however is not raised as any typical farm animal. The moose is given free reign of the forest for three seasons of the year. They use the farms to birth their young as well as a feeding location. The moose are quite tame and often used in petting zoo scenarios. They come when called and can even be ridden as one would mount a horse.
Today only 33 moose are kept on the farm in a domestic setting. The moose domestication and farming program remains mostly as an idea than as a practical application.

http://www.moosefarm.newmail.ru/
moose1.jpg
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moose2.jpg
[Thumbnail for moose2.jpg]
 
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Karl V of Sweden became laughing stock until present days for trying to replace horse in swedish army with moose!
 
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Kathleen Sanderson wrote:
The first time I saw that picture, the story said it was in Maine, but yes, it does look photoshopped to me!

As Leah said, moose are generally solitary animals (you seldom see more than one unless it's a cow with calves), and are not as amenable to domestication as herd animals are.  Actually, when you think of it, it seems like all of our domestic animals wild relatives run in packs, flocks, or herds -- even domestic cats are social animals.  I have heard of one or two being made pets of and even ridden, so I don't think it's necessarily that they have a bad temperament, just that they don't have the social behaviors that would enable them to fit into a human 'economy.'

Kathleen



Jared Diamond talks about this a little in Guns, Germs, and Steel. He says it's one of the reasons Africa was behind Eurasia. In Africa they had Lions and the mean old Bison instead of Wolves(dogs), Horses, Cows...

Moose big
 
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So what if we could have a heard of Moose?, what do you think the purpose of this would be?

I know they are good to eat but would it even be worth the trouble? In the past it seems to have had a poor out come.

Is that because it is a bad idea or because our way of going about it does not fit?
 
                                    
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Moose are good for pictures, getting rid of water-weeds in waterways; and for food. ( Yum ! )

They are unpredictable, tempermental, powerful, FAST, HUGE and MEAN when they take a notion !

That said;  I have friends that live in a remote part of the northern US; that have a resident bull moose--that is an almost daily visitor.  She sent me pictures a few yrs ago....My friends' husband is a concert pianist; and when he practices his music every day...this huge bull moose comes up out of the woods, walks right up to the house and lays down right under the big bay windows in the room where he's playing !  He stays as long as the husband plays music,...nice and calm; but the Mrs & the kids do NOT go outside while he's on the property ! 

That's because this same moose has shown his temper MANY TIMES !--- with their mailman and taken it out on several mail trucks !  Now, whenever the mailman sees this moose anywhere near the road; my friends don't get their mail that day !  So much for " neither sleet,nor snow, nor dead of night" adage......  it doesn't cover a big mean moose !  lol ! 

So as far as making a moose a draft animal?....not gonna happen any time soon...not in our generations anyway.... they make better stew...imo.
 
                      
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welll if this was true which it is obviously NOT ... the clue is ...... what is the first thing you do to a draft animal? it has to lose its nuts .. hence no rut .
 
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Leah Sattler wrote:
I read an article once about how quickly ?fox? could be "domesticated" and develop the traits of a domestic dog. I think the researchers were suggesting that our modern dogs were more closely related to them then other wild canids.   



Nova has an excellent episode called "The Dog Decoded" where they showed the fox domestication work in Russia. In approximately 50 years/generations, they have developed an animal that is very good tempered and can be treated like a pet. For some reason, they also selected another line to be as aggressive as possible ... they have a very nasty animal there!!

They also talked about the genetics of modern dogs, which are now known to be a relatively recent branch off from wolves ... the DNA leaves no question on that. They also showed a research center where wolf cubs were raised like dogs in the researcher's home ... it went well for about 8 weeks, but then became clear that wolves do not have the genes/brains to socialize with humans the way that domesticated dogs can. Wolves have no ability to read human emotions or commands, they are not willing to subordinate themselves to us... at some point, the typical wolf develops to become independent, while dogs are programmed to be more dependent.
 
                        
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Jonathan Byron wrote:
They also talked about the genetics of modern dogs, which are now known to be a relatively recent branch off from wolves ... the DNA leaves no question on that. They also showed a research center where wolf cubs were raised like dogs in the researcher's home ... it went well for about 8 weeks, but then became clear that wolves do not have the genes/brains to socialize with humans the way that domesticated dogs can. Wolves have no ability to read human emotions or commands, they are not willing to subordinate themselves to us... at some point, the typical wolf develops to become independent, while dogs are programmed to be more dependent.



Hmm  I would be rather wary of making any assumptions about a wolf's intelligence based on such a study. In fact I would be wary of making that last statement in any case. Certainly dogs have been bred for uncounted generations to get along with and be subordinate to humans but almost any breed of dog still produces individuals who,  if they are not socialized to people, will challenge people for the role of top dog. This is especially true of breeds which have been intended to be working dogs, not just toys. A lot of dogs end up in pounds or killed because of precisely that. I also would challenge that wolves have no capacity to read human emotions..it may well be that  the researchers came to that conclusion based on what they expected the wolves to do and since they didn't react that way they figure the wolves are not intelligent or are lacking in some capacity that dogs have.This is an unjustified leap.

Wolves are well established  as having a rather complex social structure of their own. Perhaps the wolf was despairing of ever being able to teach the human how things are supposed to be  .

I knew someone who had a Borzoi..a breed bred for hunting and now sometimes seen in trials where they chase an artificial lure..sometimes even just a plastic bag. Her Borzoi  could not be trained to lure coursing. The conclusion might be that he was stupid but actually the opposite was true, it seemed he simply saw no point in it. In many other ways he was a VERY smart dog.

Once in camp there was a fox I was told would take food from your hand. As it approached somewhat warilly, the thought crossed my mind that I hoped it could tell the difference between my fingers and the meat. I am SURE I didn't move..I was sitting on a step  with my hand resting on my knees..but as the thought crossed my mind the fox leaped back and retreated about 20 feet away and stood watching me. I got a bigger piece of meat which didn't make me nervous and it came up without hesitation to take the meat. It clearly had got some message from me which I had no intention of sending and in fact didn't even know I HAD sent. It would be most interesting on what basis the researchers decided that wolves couldn't read people. A predator which cannot 'read"  another animal is not going to be very successful as a hunter and wolves are feared and hunted  because they are successful and lots of people regard them as competition for the game.

At a different time and place, one crew was taking extra food for a wolf who clearly had pups although they never saw them,  who was living near a road construction area. Normally nobody sees a wild wolf for more than a second or two if at all and if any of the ranchers in the area had seen her they would have shot her in a heartbeat.  The game was gone because of the construction but apparently her pups were too young to move. So she gradually made friends with some of the crew, and recognized what they gave her was food although she obviously had never run across any food like it before.  Sandwiches are not usually part of a wolf's diet . She was only seen when the "regular" crew was there, if anyone new  visiting or working nobody caught a glimpse of her. When "her" crew was there then she came regularly. However much in need she was, she clearly had selected who she could trust to approach.

On another note..in Edmonton at the race track there is a seventy or eighty year old photo of a moose  being raced. Talk to people further north about moose and they will often tell you that a wild moose can be more dangerous than a bear as they are totally unpredictable. Perhaps the secret is getting them young enough and  trained early enough...certainly it has happened. 
 
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Here's a link and some ancient photos from my old stomping grounds:

Of moose and men: A brief history of domesticated moose in Alaska









An Alaska mail carrier at the turn of the 20th century, Carr spent his days crisscrossing the territory by dog sled, delivering mail between the Last Frontier and the contiguous United States.

...

Only later, after moving to Washington state, did Carr procure and train two moose. He named them in honor of President William Taft and Taft's daughter, Helen. The unusual pets brought Carr’s name to the headlines once again.

...

In November 1909, his image appeared in the Seattle Daily Times next to two moose calves. The article was dug up by Elizabeth Cook of the Tanana-Yukon Historical Society.


“Moose Will go on Vaudeville Stage,” the article’s headline proclaims. “Jack Carr, Pioneer of Alaska, Educating Animals He Caught in Far North for Theatrical Career.”

According to the article, Carr captured the twin calves near Circle City in the Interior when they were 6 days old. He fed them condensed milk and oatmeal until they were more fully grown.

He named the two moose Bill and Helen, after President William Taft and his daughter.

Bill and Helen were brought to Seattle via steamship and train, where they lived in an enclosure on Carr’s property, the article says.

Undated images of the two moose fully grown show that he succeeded in training them to pull him in a sulky, a light, two-wheeled carriage.

...

Meanwhile, in Alaska’s territorial days, there were no laws against keeping moose, and another famous Alaskan, J. Bernard Moore of Skagway, also had his own family pet.

The Moore family settled in Skagway Bay in 1887. Ten years later -- after J. Bernard Moore successfully predicted that a gold rush would flood the valley with stampeders -- their homestead was overrun with men heading north.

The city of Skagway was born, and for a short time, one of the most famous residents was a young bull moose.

The tale of J. Bernard "Ben" Moore’s moose is related in detail in “Skagway: City of the New Century” by Jeff Brady.

Moore inherited the moose in Seattle in 1899 from a miner who had brought the creature down from Canada. Its name: Carnation.


Carnation arrived in Skagway incognito. Eventually, Moore taught the moose to be put in harness, and he decided to hitch Carnation to a wagon and parade through town.

A local newspaper described the scene:

“All idle eyes in the business center of the city yesterday afternoon were amused by the sight of a fine specimen of the monarch of the woods, a moose, parading in the streets in harness and subservient to man,” the Skaguay News wrote on Dec. 30, 1899.

 
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All of the older photos show a more lanky animal than the stout animal in the first photo. That's the typical look. They do put on weight in the fall.

Moose are one of the more dangerous animals that you can meet in the wild. Particularly during mating season, bulls can be very aggressive. I'd rather stumble upon a cougar or black bear. They usually flee. Polar bears are our most dangerous wildlife. Humans are a potential food source.
 
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I'd rather stumble upon a cougar or black bear. They usually flee.



This is my thinking as well. I would much rather startle a bear. The worst animal to startle in the wild is a moose. Many more people are killed by moose every year than bears or wolves or cougars.


All of the older photos show a more lanky animal than the stout animal in the first photo. That's the typical look. They do put on weight in the fall.


This is true, and I've seen some seriously lanky moose, much thinner than even these other photos. I've also seen a few mature bulls, including one earlier this winter, that were very much like the one in the original post photo. A bull moose in the rut is a very, very, dangerous animal, as is, of course, the female with young. Keep your distance. Let them make the first move. Run and get behind a tree!


I expect that if they had the temperment suitable for domestication someone at some point would have managed it. aren't moose a bit more solitary in comparison to equines, cattle and reindeer? they probably don't have the innate herd and social behavior to make them good candidates. but who knows?



I think that this is largely true. Most domesticated moose, to my knowledge, were raised from young abandoned calves (the mother was either deliberately shot for meat or due to an aggressive act, or was killed by accident by a car or train). These were not domesticated to be herd animals, but were often in these cases as singular or paired draft animals. In medieval times, this was more common in Russia, Siberia, and I believe some Scandanavian countries, but I can't seem to find the verification for this. Some Europeans who came to Canada (and probably the U.S.) did the same thing here.

I personally know people who raised a moose from a young calf (the mother was killed on the highway). The thing grew huge, very fast, on goats milk and cows milk, initially inside the house, until it got too big. They ended up shoo-ing it into the bush as an adolescent. They do have a resident moose population that returns yearly in the wilder part of their property; whether this population is descended from the moose they nursed, is not known.

A lot of people eat moose around northern B.C., they are reasonably common (and it has been a wild farming dream of mine in the past to domesticate one). They are common enough around here that there is even a moose draft animal as the name of a Beer from the Local Micro Brewery
, called Swamp Donkey !!! My personal second favorite of the local brews, following their Unkindness Oatmeal Stout (which is sadly only available in the winter).
 
Roberto pokachinni
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The second photo in this thread, posted by Gwen Lynn, was taken about a two hour drive from where I live, and where the above mentioned brewery is. The same photo is on the beer label.
 
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Of Course Swamp Donkey has another meaning in the Urban Dictionary! I leave it to you to look it up.
 
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Is it me or is the only true and proper use of a domesticated moose for the Canadian mounted patrol?
 
Roberto pokachinni
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Ha ha. Are you referring to our police? This Is Them In Their Ceremonial Garb, Mounted
 
Chadwick Holmes
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Yes exactly, but the mounted patrol units are on horses.......I say the only just use of a domesticated moose is for that mounted patrol and yes in full dress garb!

For that matter it should be that horses are now substandard and only Mooses will be used, you know in principal......


And maybe just maybe we should do this because it fills some part of me with humor thinking if the Mounty on a moose! Hehehe
 
Roberto pokachinni
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it fills some part of me with humor thinking if the Mounty on a moose! Hehehe

In many ways.
 
paul wheaton
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I know of several people in Montana between the late 1800's and early 1900's who hand raised Elk and rode them like a horse. There are numerous photos of this in the Montana historical society. It seems that Elk would be a suitable species to domesticate since they are known to form very large herds. It's common throughout MT to see herds into the hundreds. In Helena, MT right now there is a herd living in town that is around 80 head, just wandering the valley munching away. They are quite large as well, making for some of the best wild game you can hunt.  Moose on the other hand would be pretty hard to work with. They are solitary and quite agressive. They are incredibly strong but that can work against you as well.  I would assume that the pic from the 1880s of those two Moose pulling a wagon were probably gelded since bull moose are notorious for aggression.
 
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it's a really novel idea to have domesticated Moose working on farms. I'm not sure how well that would work out. I'm sure there are stories of Moose becoming aggressive. They are very dangerous animals, especially when they get angry.
 
Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? Is this a tiny ad?
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