Kevin Vernoy

For those who don't know, Bocking 4 and Bocking 14 comfrey varieties are Sterile Hybrids that can't reproduce by seed, but propagate SUPER easily by root/stem/etc cuttings.

Below are descriptions of these two varieties in question, taken from "COMFREY: Past, Present and Future" by Lawrence D. Hills (the person originally responsible for the Bocking varieties):

Bocking No. 14
This is the dominant in the Stephenson strain, 80 to 90 per cent. The flower stems are slender and frequent and are entirely
wingless. The flowers are Imperial Purple 33/3 fading to Lilac Purple 031/3. The leaves are pointed, slightly serrated at the
edges and vary in proportion from 5 to 12 and 3 to 6.
This is also the clone presented by Mr. W. Holmes of the Hannah Dairy Research Institute to the Holbrook Young
Farmers’ Club for their trial from his survivals. Its flower colour is not blue as stated by Mr. Holmes in Agriculture for
February 1946. Because his trials were undertaken in grass for an unmeasured proportion of the half acre devoted to the
crop, and he used close planting, his results cannot be compared with those of good farmers.
The balance of the Stephenson Strain is made up of variations found also in the Webster, the two stemmy and small
winged or wingless variations, Nos. 5 and 7, plus the thick stemmed winged varieties Nos. 4 and 6. There is, however, one
special variation.

Fig. 5 Bocking No. 14 takes after Symphytum asperrimum in flower stem habit. It is early , rust resistant, and high in potash and allantoin, the healing principle.



--------------------------------------------------


Bocking No. 4
This is the dominant in the strain, about 50 to 60 per cent. The flower colour is Bishops Violet 34/3 when fully open. It has
strong stems and small wings. The leaves are broad and round tipped, their proportion is 5 to 10, but they have no incurling,
therefore they appear far wider than a No. 1 for example. The edges are unserrated, and the veins are prominent, with
bristles thickest on the underside so that they appear smooth. At leafy stage these leaves are very large, recovering rapidly
after cutting. The stems, as in all the variations under trial, are solid (see Fig. 7 overleaf).

Fig. 7 Bocking No. 4 has thick stems like Symphytum officinale, but without the distinctive ‘wings’. It is preferred by poultry and for human food, with more protein and less allantoin.

After reading the aforementioned book, I've decided that I have Bocking 14 for the following reasons:
1) my flowers start as Imperial Purple and fade to Lilac Purple 2) my flower stems are slender and frequent 3) The leaves are pointed and spikey at the edges.
Compared to Bocking 4, I think my variety is slightly taller probably puts up more stems.  The flowers aren't a "Bishops Violet" when fully open.  I think the "wings" are much larger than Bocking 4.  The leaves aren't broad or round tipped.


These are some pictures of my Bocking 14 Comfrey:










If you have some pictures of your own Bocking comfrey, please share.

For those of you looking for the broken links to the cover crops listed on soil food web, they can be found here:
https://web.archive.org/web/20180813120710/http://www.soilfoodweb.com/Cover_Plants.html
and  here:
https://environmentcelebration.com/howto/low-growing-perennial-cover-plants-for-northwestern-us/

I've pasted these plants below, but please note that this list was originally created in 2014 and there are a lot of misspelled and/or outdated scientific names,  so if you can't find them in a database like https://plants.usda.gov, try googling them first to find their correct/alternate name.  Same goes for some of the url resources (some of which may no longer exist).

Low Growing Perennial Cover Plants for Northwestern US

Ajunga Reptans (Carpet Bugle) Zones 4-9. Height: 2-3"
         Swallowtail Garden Seeds (Swallowtailgardenseeds.com) 1-877-489-7333

Arctostaphylos edmundsii Carmel Sur Manzanita (Sur Manzanita)
          Moose Creek Nursery.com 760-749-3216

          Yerba Buena Nursery (yerbabuenanursery.com) 650-851-1668

Aubrieta x cultorum (Rock Cress) Zones 4-9. Height: 3-6"
          Swallowtail Garden Seeds (Swallowtailgardenseeds.com) 1-877-489-7333
          Seedaholic.com
          Hardyplants.com

Campanula poscharskyana (Serbian bellflower) Zones 3-8. Height: 6"
           Seedaholic.com

Ceanothus maritimus (Bluff California Lilac)(rare)

           Las Pilitas Nursery (laspilatis.com) 760-749-5930

           Bay Natives (www.baynatives.com ) 415-287-6755


Chrysanthemum paludosum  (Creeping Daisy)  
            American Meadows 877-309-7333 Amazon.com

            Outside Pride  (outsidepride.com)  800-670-4192


Corethrogyne filaginifolia Silver carpet (Common Corethrogyne and California Aster)

           Las Pilitas.com 760-749-5930 Larner Seeds (www.larnerseeds.com)


Dichondra - Zones 8-11. Height: 1-2".
    Outsidepride.com

Erigonum caespitosum (Matted Buckwheat)

           Pacific Rim Native Plant Nursery (www.hillkeep.ca )
           Canada Geoscape Desert Nursery (www.geoscapenursery.com)  208-884-1251

Euphorbia maculate


Fragaria virginiana var. platypetala  (Western Alpine Strawberry)

           Las Pilitas Nursery  (laspilatis.com) 760-749-5930

Festuca ovina L. (Sheep Fescue)

           American  Meadows  (www.americanmeadows.com )  877-309-7333                                                                                      

Herniaria Glabra (Green Carpet) Zones 5-8. Height: 1-3"
           Seedman.com

Heuchera hirsutissima (Idyllwild Rock Flower)

            Las Pilitas Nursery  (laspilatis.com) 760-749-5930

Horkelia parryi  (Parrys Horkelia)

            Las Pilitas Nursery  (laspilatis.com) 760-749-5930

Lemon Frost Thymeis - Zones 5-8. Width: 18" diameter.

Leptinella gruveri (Miniature Brass Buttons) Zones 7-9. Height: 1-2"
Lowe's Hardware

Leptinella minor - Zones 7-9.

Lysimachia nuinmularia (Creeping Jenny) Zones 5-8. Height: 2-6"

            Amazon.com

Juncus phaeocephalus

Mazus reptans (Creeping mazus) Zones: 5-9. Height: 2-4".
Lowe's Hardware

Mentha requieneii (Corsican Mint) Zones 6-9, Height 6".

Monardella macrantha (red monardella, hummingbird monardella and Hummingbird Coyote Mint)
             High Country Gardens (highcountrygardens.com) 800-925-9387

              Nemophila Maculata (Five Spot) Amazon.com


'Nana' Creeping Cinquefoil (Potentilla neumanniana) Zones 4-6. Height: 1-3"

Nemophilia maculate

Oenothera californica (California Evening Primrose)

              Plant world Seeds (http://www.plant-world-seeds.com/)


Penstemon  heterodoxus  (Sierra Penstemon)

              Northwest Native Seed, 17595 Vierra Canyon Rd #172, Prunedale, CA 93907

              Las Pilitas Nursery (laspilatis.com)   760-749-5930

Potentilla aurea (Cinquefoil) Zones 4-8. Height: 2-6"
               Plant-world-seeds.com

Pratia pendunculata (Blue Star Creeper) Zones 6-9. Height: 1-2"
               Amazon.com

Sagina subulata 'Aurea' (Scott Moss) Zones 3-9. Height: 1".
Bluestone Perennials Nursery

Salvia sonomensis  'Hobbit Toes'

              California Flora Nursery  (calfloranursery.com)  707-528-8813

Satureja douglasii (Yerba Buena)

               Amazon.com (Little Grove seeds)

Saxifraga Arendsil (Purple Robe) Zone 4-9. Height: 6"
               Seedman.com

Sedum glaucophyllum (Cliff Stonecrop)

               Amazon.com

               Outside Pride  (outsidepride.com)  800-670-4192
               Seed man.com

               Portland  Nursery  (portlandnursery.com) 503-231-5050

Sedum oreganum (Green Stonecrop)

               Seed man.com

               Portland  Nursery  (portlandnursery.com) 503-231-5050

Sedum 'Silver Moon'

               Portland  Nursery  (portlandnursery.com) 503-231-5050

Selleria microphylla (Fine TIde Turf) Zones 8-10. Height: 1".

Thymus pseudolanuginosus (Woolly Thyme) Zones 5-9. Height: 2".

Thymus praecox 'Reiter's Red' - Zones 3-8.

Thymus reiter (Reiter Creeping Thyme) Zones 4-9.

Thymus serpyllum (Creeping Thyme, Mother of Thyme) Zones 4-7. Height: 2-4"
               Burpee.com
               Amazon.com
               Swallowtailgardenseeds.com
               Seedman.com

Trifolium repens (Dutch White Clover) Zones 3-10. Height: 3-5"
               Seedman.com

Veronica Prostrata (Prostrate or Rock Speedwell) Zones 4-8. Height: 4-6"
               Seedman.com

Wallowa Mountains Mossy Sandwort (Desert Moss) Evergreen. Zones 4-8. Height: 1".

Zinnia grandiflora (Prarie zinnia) Zones 4-9. Height: 4"
               Plantsofthesouthwest.com
             

_________________________________________________________________________________________________

Low Growing Perennial Cover Plants for Northeastern US

Achillea tomentosa (Woolly Yarrow). Zones 4-10. Height: 6-12 inches.
Arctostaphylos uva-ursi (Bearberry). Zones 2-6. Height: 6-12 inches.
Chamaemelum nobile (Roman Chamomile). Zones 4-6.
Hypericum reptans (Creeping St. John's Wort). Zones 5-9. Height 4-12 inches.
Origanum vulgare (Oregano). Zones 4-9. Height: 4-12 inches.
Sedum spurium 'Fulda Glow' (Fulda Glow Stonecrop). Zones 3-9. Height: 4-6 inches
Sedum spirium 'Tricolor' (tricolor Stonecrop). Zones 2-9. Height: 4-6 inches.
Sedum 'Vera Jameson' (Vera Jameson Stonecrop). Zones 3-9. Height: 10-12 inches.
Seudm spurium 'John Creech' (John Creech Stonecrop). Zones 3-8. Height: 1-4 inches.
Sedum sieboldii (Stonecrop or October Daphne). Zones 3-9. Height: 6-12 inches.
Sedum reflexum 'Angelina' (Angelina Stonecrop). Zones 3-9. Height: 3-6 inches.
Sedum 'Bertram Anderson' (Bertram Anderson Stonecrop). Zones 3-9. Height: 6-12 inches.
Teucrium spp. (Germanders) T. Chamaedrys 'Prostratum' (or 'Nanum'). Zones 5-8. Height 6-8 inches.
Teucrium spp. (Germanders) T. Montanum. Zone 7.
Thymus praecox subsp. arcticus 'Lanuginosus' (Woolly Thyme). Zones 5-9. Height: 1-2 inches.
Thymus praecox subsp. srticus 'Coccineus' (Crimson thyme). Zones 5-8. Height 1-3 inches.
Thymus praecox subsp. arcticus 'Quinquecostatus', 'Albus', Zones up to 4. Height: 4 inches.
Thymus pulegiodes, T. sephllum (Mother-of-Thyme). Zones 4-8. Height: 6 inches.
______________________________________________________________


Hardiness Zone 3 (temperatures to - 40 degrees F)

Antennaria parvifolia Nutt. (Nuttall’s)

*-Antennaria plantaginifolia (L.) Richardson (woman’s tobacco) Packet $2.50 Prairie Moon Seed

Antennaria dimorpha (Nutt.) Torr. & A. Gray - low pussytoes

-Antennaria neglecta (Prairie Pussytoes) Praire Moon Seed Packet $2.50 1/8 oz $30.00

*-Aster macrophyllus (big leaved aster) Prairie Moon Seed Packet  $2.50

Antennaria umbrinella Rydb. (umber pussytoes)

Dianthus armeria L. (Deptford pink) *many other species but not this one

-Fragaria virginiana Duchesne (Virginia  wild strawberry) Prairie Moon Seed Packet $2.50 *many other species but not this one

Fritillaria pudica (Pursh) Spreng. (yellow fritillary or yellow bell) *many other species but not this one

* Geranium maculatum (spotted geranium) Prairie Moon Seed Packet $2.50, 1/8 oz. $15.00

Lesquerella alpina (Nutt.) w. Watson var. alpina (Alpine Bladderpod)

Leucocrinum montanum Nutt. ex A. Gray (Mountain Lily, sand lily common starlily)

* Lewisia rediviva Pursh var. rediviva (bitter root)

Linnaea borealis L. (twinflower)

*Lysimachia ciliata L. (fringed loosestrife) Prairie Moon, Seed Packet $2.50

*Oenothera caespitosa Nutt. ssp. montana (Nutt.) Munz (evening primrose, desert gumbo lily)

Oxytropis lambertii (Purple Locoweed) Prairie Moon, Seed Packet $2.50, 1/8 oz. $12.50, 1/4 oz. $20.00, 1/2 oz. $35.00, 1 oz.  $60.00, 1 lb. $900.00. *many other species but not this one

Penstemon eriantherus Pursh var. eriantherus (fuzzytongue penstemon) *many other species but not this one

Phlox hoodii RIchardson ssp. viscidula (Wherry) Wherry (Hood’s)

Phlos hoodii Richarson ssp. muscoides (Nutt.) Wherry - aka Phlox bryoides  (Moss) *two other species but not this one

Physaria didymocarpa (Hook.) A. Gray (common twinpod)

* Sedum lanceolatum TOrr. ssp. lanceolatum (spearleaf or lance-leaved stonecrop)

Townsendia hookeri Beaman (Hooker’s Townsend daisy)

Vicia americana Muhl. ex Willd (American vetch)

Viola nuttallii Pursh (Nuttall’s yellow prairie violet)

* http://www.jelitto.com

I'm trying to figure out which Bocking strain of comfrey I have. People have been saying that I might have Bocking 4 because their Bocking 14 strain has blue-tinged flowers from time to time and mine do not.  Any ideas?   These are pics of my comfrey:

I have a bunch of comfrey that I've been propagating on my property.  It's is some sort of infertile Bocking variety, but I don't know if it's Bocking 4 or Bocking 14.  Among many differences, Bocking 4 is commonly used for fodder and has a higher protein content and Bocking 14 is better for biomass but contains more compounds that make animals sick if eaten in large quantities.

My neighbor has horses and the fence between us is often plagued by blackeberries (yes, a plague here in Oregon) and other weeds and I've been thinking of planting the Bocking 4 variety of comfrey on my side of the fence.  I'd like to have the Bocking 4 so the horses won't be tempted to eat the more poisonous variety.  If I knew I had the correct type, then I would simply propagate it, otherwise, I might opt to order some Bocking 4 cuttings.

Does anyone know which Bocking variety I have?

The following are some pictures of my comfrey:

I'm trying to get 100 this year from: River Hills Harvest  because, to me they seem to be the most reputable.

You could try https://www.elderberryman.com/   It says that they're organic, but they are very expensive.

The cheapest I've found are from a company that seems super shady, so I don't even want to reference the company on here because I don't think THEY even know what variety they shipped me even though they had different varieties listed on their site.

Although they only provide rooted cuttings of elderberries, Fruitwood Nursery is a good place for scion/cuttings of basically any sort of fruit species.

I'm looking to collect scion cuttings for my small farm as well as my local Agrarian Sharing Network Scion Fairs. If you know anyone who needs help pruning this winter with some of the following fruiting plants and/or would allow me to collect scion, please contact me.

There are always plenty of apple, pear, and plum varieties at the fair, but,
things that interest me and that I'm looking to collect include:
Figs
Currants
Elderberries
Kiwi
Peach, Nectarine, Apricots, Pluots
Cherries
Asian Pears
Chestnut,
Filbert/Hazelnuts
Walnuts
and other fruiting trees and shrubs.

Do you know of anyone in the Eugene area who needs help pruning this winter and/or would allow me to collect scion?
Thanks.
-Kevin

For anyone interested in the scion/seed swap in oregon, these are some of the 2020 events:

I'm looking to purchase 100-200 rootstocks for Peaches, Nectarines, Apricots, Plums, & Pluots, but I'm having trouble finding good rootstock for my specific conditions.   I've been told to order super early, otherwise places will run out and cancel your order.

I live near the Willamette Valley in Oregon.  We have 50-60 inches of rain a year which falls mostly in the winter and drought during the summer.  The soil is very acidic before amendments (pH of 5 or so) and is a heavy silty-clay soil.  The drainage is relatively good, but when it rains for 2 weeks straight, certain areas can get a bit waterlogged until it stops raining for a couple days.

After much researching, the rootstock that shows the most promise seems to be Krymsk 86 for many reasons including the fact that it works well with all stone fruit.  Other candidates for my area/soil that are good for some stone fruit but not necessarily ideal for all include Krymsk 1,  St Julien "A",  Lovell, Marianna 26-24, Myrobalan (seedling), and Myrobalan 29C.  

So far, the only place that I've found that definitely sells Krymsk 86 is Upper Canada Growers . They are currently out of stock, but I assume they will have more in the future, but who knows.  Since they're in Canada, I wonder if that would be an issue.

Willamette Nurseries in Oregon has Krymsk 1, Myrobalan (seedling), Myrobalan 29C, Marianna 26-24, and Lovell.  However, I've heard that there's no guarantee that you'll get what you order with this company if you're only buying a small amount (100 pieces is considered small) of rootstock.

Cummins Nursery in New York has Myrobalan, and Lovell and mention Krymsk (although I'm not sure which Krymsk they will be carrying (if any) once winter rolls in).

One Green World has St Julien, Marianna 26-24, and Lovell

Raintree Nursery has Lovell, and Marianna 26-24

Copenhaven Farms has Myrobalan

Dave Wilson Nursery lists Lovell, Citation, Marianna 26-24, Myrobalan 29C (though I'm not sure Dave Wilson Nursery actually sells rootstock, they may just list them as a reference for their pre-grafted trees).

Fruitwood Nursery has Marianna 26-24

Burnt Ridge Nursery has Lovell, Marianna 26-24, and Myrobalan (seedling)

I would not recommend ordering from Rich Farm Garden Supply! they get bad reviews


I will try to contact my local agricultural state university extension (Oregon State University (OSU)) to ask them if they have any recommendations on where to find specific rootstock like Krymsk 86.

Can anyone list some other resources on where to find stone fruit rootstock for Pacific Northwest (heavy clay soils with some drought tolerance and wet soil tolerance)?

Where can I find Krymsk 86?

Thanks :-)

Are there any soil-chemists here? After a lot of online research, I'm still confused and here to ask:
Is there a method of determining the resulting pH after combining two soils of equal mass and density but with different known pH values?

For instance:
If both soilA (with pH of 5) and soilB (with pH of 8) both weigh 1kg and each have a volume of 1liter,  then what would be the pH if you mixed the two?
I tried to apply this situation into the equations given in this video, and I came out with a pH of:  -log((10^-5+10^-8)/2) = 5.3
Did I do that right?
Even if I did, I have a strong feeling that things aren't that simple for soils, due to the multitudes of different chemical compounds that might react with one another in order to create a much different soil chemistry and therefore pH.
Therefore it's my belief that there's no real way to do this without simply testing the resulting soil. Which brings me to my next question:

Is lime different than other alkaline soil additives?

My reasoning for asking is that I'm making seedballs and I'd like the pH to be around 6 or so.  The major component is Red Clay which sometimes has a pH of 4 to 5 and I was thinking of mixing it with azomite (pH of 8), and possibly ag lime (pH of 12.4) to raise the pH.  Another thread mentions that ag lime "has its neutralizing effect on acidic soils by ion exchange".  Does something like azomite have neutralizing effects because of ion exchange too? or is Azomite (Hydrated Sodium Calcium Aluminosilicate) not active in such a way and would therefore only raise pH based on the equations in the previously mentioned video?  Are certain soil compounds more free to exchange ions than others?

Thanks.

Thank you so much for that, Marco Banks!   Yes vertiver could be a perfect solution for my purposes.  Some good info at https://www.vetiver-grass.com/   I read that there are some varieties that are hardy to zone 8.  I also read that are some varieties that are sterile and it seems that vertiver is somewhat of a dynamic accumulator, which would make it a perfect mulch for my garden!

Thank you both for listing some traditional road building methods using appropriate technology, and making sure that water is draining to either side of the road. They will be very helpful for future readers who are interested in those methods.  I don't use these roads all that much (maybe a few times a month) and they're on a relatively flat surface.   If I end up using the roads more than I currently do, that may be the best route.

Thank you S Bengi for suggesting the use of some type of grass.

I'm looking for plants that have root systems that can stabilize my roads for minimal traffic during winter rainy months.

I'd like to request that further replies remain as relevant as possible to my original questions regarding the use of specific plants as a soil stabilization technique in silty clay soils (personally, I'm in a zone 8 region that gets 40 inches of rain during the winter and drought during the summer).

Thanks again :-)