Kārlis Taurenis

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since Mar 26, 2020
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A forest garden designer from the UK, now living in Latvia - a new climate with new possibilities!
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Recent posts by Kārlis Taurenis

You can also use toilet paper! I'll try it next week, it looks very easy! Check this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQlolVGRWic

Good luck! :)
1 year ago
Breeding hardy passifloras! Fascinating topic. Yet it seems imperative to get fully clear on passiflora hardiness to understand the implications.

Alexander, you say:

P. lutea is hardy to zone 5 here in the US. P. incarnata and P. caerulea are hardy to zone 6. Tropical P. edulis hardy to zone 9.



and later:

Incarnata and caerulea have a well known hybrid called Colvillii which is noted as surviving temperatures as low as -15F, which corresponds with zone 5.  



Some of this is fairly contrary to my understanding. P.caerulea is sometime quoted as being hardy to zone 6 (-10°F or -24°C) but other sources such as PFAF - https://pfaf.org/User/plant.aspx?latinname=Passiflora+caerulea - state zone 9 (20°F or -7°C). A huge difference!!! What is the truth?

From seeing them only marginally surviving where I'm from in Southwest England, I'd say they're hardy to around zone 9 or probably zone 8 for well established specimens.

As for P.incarnata - it's native to states like Illinois and Indiana, so definitely hardy to zone 6 (-10°F or -24°C).

A hybrid between the two, then, would seem unlikely to be more hardy than either. You mentioned the hybrid P.colvillii is hardy to zone 5. I would simply love for that to be true, since I now live in zone 5 Latvia! But a quick search at https://www.passiflora.it/colvillii/246/eng/ tells it's only hardy to -10°C (zone 8).

It would be lovely to cut through all the conflicting information by getting real, first hand experience from growers - which exactly is what makes permies forums so great! So let's have the truth about hardy passifloras y'all!
1 year ago
Thanks very much all of you for your input! Very interesting to learn about native bamboos and woody grasses...

I would be tempted to try growing Giant Miscanthus here (in Latvia) also, except that when I tried growing it in Devon, southwest England, late spring frosts killed the emerging shoots, setting the plants back.

Late spring frosts can be harder and later here - easily til the end of May, so I think it's not worth trying. I'm hoping that bamboo shoots are a little tougher!
1 year ago
Hi all, thought it's time to breathe new life into this thread!

Cold hardy bamboos - a really important topic for all of us living in colder climates, and I intend to write a proper article about it on my website soon!

The Phyllostachys (classic, big, spreading bamboos) species that Jennifer mentioned are the usual suspects for cold climates:

Phyllostachys bissetii  - This species seems to be the toughest and most cold hardy, and it has foliage branching almost all the way down to the ground.

Phyllostachys aureosulcata and ‘Spectabilis’ variety

Phyllostachys nuda  

Phyllostachys atrovaginata - This species has the strongest wood, but foliage doesn't begin until 5-6' up.  

Phyllostachys parvifolia



As far as I've seen in my research, P.bissetii is often recommended as the most cold hardy species, but it's worth digging around online gardening forums. I found this from a grower in southern Ontario:

nuda was a total bust here in zone 4b/5a. I heard the same thing from a fellow in Niagara, not that it failed, just that it was like having 'running sticks' as opposed to bamboo. I can't list all of the plants that have failed here, but a list would include: P. vivax, rubromarginata, F. murieale (could try again), P. bissetti, P. aureosulcata 'aureocaulis', and about 15 other Phyllostachys that I can't remember right now! Outside of zone 6, and even in zone 6, plants need some serious size to have a chance of making it long term (i.e. larger than 7 gallon sized). I imagine that I'd still have lots of different species if I had listened to that advice when I first started with bamboo!

The ones that are succeeding are:
P. aureosulcata, probably averages 15' or so. Usually mostly top-kills here, shoots in May.
P. aureosulcata 'spectibilis': Seems to downsizing here, probably no taller than 10'. Not as vigorous as the species.
P. aureosulcata 'alata': Running like a champ. Has spread very quickly, but is still really short at (perhaps) 6'. I keep hoping for an upsize.



So - it seems that this fella was having the most success with P.aureosulcata than P.bissetti, dulcis, or others, although interestingly he says that the P.aureosulcata variety 'aureocaulis' failed. I hope that was just bad luck because I just ordered one for my land in Latvia in zone 5!

P.parvifolia also sounds so promising - maybe the hardiest, but hard to get hold of. It's said to even thrive in wet soils.

I've also ordered Fargesia 'Jiuzhaigou' I - Red Dragon, which, according to https://www.bamboogarden.com/cold-hardy-bamboo - is hardy down to -20°F.

Let's see!

I'd love to hear more of your experience guys, cheers!

1 year ago
Interesting post, thanks for sharing experiences, everyone!

I'm looking at growing Jujubes in Latvia, Northeast Europe, but I think it might be just too cold, with not enough summer heat.

We are at USDA Zone 5B here (lows to -15°F or -26°C) & a nursery from Poland where winters are warmer states the bush may need covering in cold winters. See: https://kielkowski-szkolka.pl/produkt/glozyna-pospolita-tzw--daktyle-chinskie----ziziphus-jujuba--204

On the other hand, I saw a nursery in Canada saying that Jujubes are hardy to -25°C and can be grown in a pot and brought into a garage in colder climates. See: https://www.greenbarnnursery.ca/products/ponderosa

Of course summer ripening is another issue - here we only have 3-4 frost-free months, frosts can easily return by the end of September some years.

I would love to hear more from your experiences guys, as this post is already a couple of years old - did they grow for you?

Thanks to all for sharing precious knowledge & experience, it really helps!

Charlie

1 year ago
Hi everyone,

Thanks so much for your feedback, your own experiences, it's always helpful.

I've done quite a bit more research into this and am amazed how much debate there seems to be on forums and things when there's actually been really good studies into borax on wood - you just have to find them!

The results that I can see is that borax is a pretty effective wood preservative and fire-retardant as long as it is not constantly exposed to the leaching of water.

Based on my findings it seems that borates either have no effect, or actually improve the structural strength of wood. Good protection from insects and fungi, although perhaps not moulds. Low toxicity to humans. A slight drawback that it can blunt blades a little faster than untreated wood!

Firstly wood strength! :

This study experimented on the effect of borax on bamboo, and I assume the results could also be applied to wood:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/347109744_The_Effect_of_Borax_Solution_as_Preservative_to_the_Mechanical_Properties_of_Bamboo

This excellent study from 2020 concluded that:

"This  study indicated  that  30% to  50%  borax in  the preservative  solution is  sufficient  to provide  significant
increase in strength for  compressive strength,  tensile strength, and  bending strength  of bamboo  specimen."

(Great study - I'm just slightly puzzled about how one could achieve a 50% borax solution in cold conditions, am I misunderstanding something?!)


More research on borates (including boric acid) for timber preservation from Australia in 2004, contains lots of findings from many other studies, encompassing a lot of helpful information:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/328600265_Treatment_Methods_for_the_Protection_of_Hardwood_Sapwood_from_Lyctine_Borers

"Boron has a number of advantages as a wood preservative... Borates are relatively inexpensive, colourless, non-flammable, and can be applied by a variety of methods, ranging from cheap dip tanks to sophisticated VPI plants...

Boron also has sound health, safety and environmental credentials (not withstanding the directive from
Sweden mentioned above), as it has low toxicity to mammals, and low environmental impact
(Currie, 1997). "

"Borates are generally effective against sapstain fungi. However, at the levels normally used
commercially, borates do not protect timber from surface moulds. " (Amburgey, 1990)

"Boron treatment has no significant effect on the strength of timber" (Anon., 1994).

"Boron treated timber will blunt saw blades more quickly than untreated timber" (Davis and Norton, 1995).

"Provided the treated timber is dried to a moisture content below 18%, borate treatment should have no adverse effect on painting" (Anon.., 1994).  

"Borate treated wood can affect phenol formaldehyde glues, but most other glues seem to be
compatible." (K. Lyngcoln, pers. comm., 1996)

Cold water soaking:

"It usually involves soaking in 3 to 4.5% borax for 12-14 days (Johnstone and Humphreys, 1972). The length of time needed to treat timber by soaking depends on timber species and thickness. As a general rule for 4.5% borax solutions at 18C, timber of 2.54 cm thickness requires seven days soaking, while timber of
3.81 cm thickness requires 14 days soaking" (Davis and Norton, 1995).


There's loads more information in both of those studies quoted about the preservation powers of borax. As long as the wood is not being exposed to water constantly, I'm very encouraged that borax is a sound, environmentally friendly method of treating wood.






2 years ago
Hi everyone,

I'm making a new yurt and was thinking of using borax to protect the wood from mould, rot, insects etc.

There seems to be mixed opinion about the efficacy of borax in wood treatment, with people trying to sell borax or deterring customers biasing the perspective!

In general, my brief research has led me to believe that borax is a pretty effective, long lasting wood treatment if given an immersion treatment before construction, providing the wood is protected from prolonged immersion in water (which washes out the borax).

There was also a claim on a permies post: 'Best oil to treat lumber with' from Bryant Redhawk that Boric acid breaks down the lignin in the wood, thus reducing its strength. I don't have an opinion on that yet since I can't find much evidence pointing in either direction, so would love to understand more.

Would anyone be able to share their knowledge / experience with using Borax on wood?

My plan would be to soak wood in 2 cups of borax : 12L water, as recommended by Bryant.

Thanks all!

Charlie :)

2 years ago
Hey L, (sorry, I couldn't find your fuller name!)

It's super helpful and interesting hearing people's growing stories from different parts of the world, thanks!

I'm really curious about permaculture and growing in Japan, and especially the colder climates, like Hokkaido. A lot of cooler weather Japanese plants seem to do well for us in Latvia.

Do you have contacts in Hokkaido, or perhaps know of Japanese growing forums where I could share information and ask some questions?

Thanks so much, I intend to publish information on growing in different climates based on my research within the next year!

Charlie
forestgardenplants.blogspot.com

2 years ago
Thanks everyone for increasing the input! All very useful...

So much so that I'm thinking of collecting data to map what is possible to grow, where, with climate data for each location.

Steve, can you tell exactly where in Maine you are? I'm interested you can grow both Elaeagnus species in such a cold location!

I planted some Elaeagnus umbellata here last year. Aronia and Amelanchier are 'invaders' from Canada, but seem to like it here, even naturalising in the understorey.

I've found that here things actually ripen much better in the understorey here than in the UK due to the increased hours of sunshine - here we get an average of around 11 hours per day in June, compared to just 7 or so in much of the UK.

If others would like to chime in with what they can grow in their notherly-ish locality, it would all contribute to wealth of data for us all to learn from.

Thanks again ! :)





2 years ago
Thank you for the suggestion on the book - I might get that!

Mulberries and Honeyberries are said to grow well here - I've planted some so let's see!

Cranberries and Lingonberries, as well as European Blueberries (Bilberries) are all over the forests and swamps here - not much need to plant them really!

An issue for nut production can be pollination in cold spring weather, I've not yet seen abundant crops of hazels but I have lots of cobnut seedlings growing to get a diverse genetic selection - maybe some of them will do well!

Like I say, peaches can grow here, and where peaches grow, plenty of other exotic things can follow! Maybe even Northern Pawpaws?

That would be something....
2 years ago