Garrett Schantz

No dice on an ideal garden or whatever.

But I got some stuff planted. Moved some beans out of beds. Planted tomatillos underneath corn stalks.


I'll see how some of this goes.


Most of the corn was planted at the same time, crossing block.


I'd say the the Dzit Bacal Ancient Mayan, Independence Corn and some Hominy types that I mentioned before, they're seeming to be flowering.



I'll be honest and say that I typically haven't grown much corn before.


But, the feathery / silky things would be the females. The other flowering stalk looking things would be the males organs.


Corn is wind pollinated, so most of the smaller sized corns will likely still cross with whatever.


So, some Hominy, Independence Corn and Dzit Bacal Ancient Mayan, might cross. I didn't mark each thing. Or I did but the tags have magically vanished!



I did mix Dobranoc into most of the other small block. Alongside Japanese Black Sticky, more self-feeding corns.


As mentioned before, I planted "blue / purple" self-feeding seed, in the same positions as where I planted Dobranoc and Japanese Black Sticky.



These cam barely be called crossing blocks. I'll need to plant actual rows and things of Dobranoc and Japanese Black Sticky in the future. I will have to get ahold of Montana Morado Maize as well.


The Corn isn't super tall thus far. I'll see how it all develops.

I'm unsure if I posted about planted purple peas from the "Promiscuous African Pea" mix, separate from the other stuff.


Many of those were wrinkled, some looked inviable. The Purple looking ones, at least. Colors can differ, if a legume aborts it's offspring.

It's noticeable with some Physalis species hybrids and certain legumes. With runner bean crosses, runner mothers, I had the beans turning wrinkly - crosses. Or they looked immature, even after drying.

The seedlings were weak to start, up until the F3 or so. Before that, they barely grew.


I planted them, separately from where I planted the others.

I also planted one "pea" in the same spot. One with a few different color patterns on a single "pea", different stripings and markings, here and there.



Also, the leaf colors. I planted these in raised beds. This isn't ideal for the legumes.

Too many nutrients of certain kinds. I'd likely need to let it run a cycle and even out, with tomatoes or something.

It's a bit annoying, but it is what it is.




I was trying to make a little lesson on selection and breeding, for fellows in a discord chat server who do a bit of gardening.


I believe that all gardeners should do some plant breeding.


Either way, the general idea.

Legumes tend to have wrinkled, sunken in or other problematic stuff going on with their seeds, if they're hybrids and they're not doing their pollen stuff correctly. Or if they're being successfully pollinated by something incompatible.


Sometimes they'll have an odd color. Legumes tend to have lighter shades of things if they're picked too early. Or if there's pollination issues.


Some people toss those and assume that they're inviable.

Or they thin them out. Maybe they get stepped on.



I don't know if this is the same with peas. But most people don't grow peas and Lathyrus species side by side and whatever. Peas are also in a whole other subfamily or grouping from Psophocarpus, Vigna, Strophostyles, Lablab and Phaseolus.

Garbanzo beans, Fava beans, and whatever. They're in another group from those.

I believe that Lentils are slightly related to peas.



Either way, I doubt that I'll ever see a natural pea x Vigna / Phaseolus. And there's not a lot of close or semi-close relatives for it to cross with.

And there's generally not too many Pisum / Pea species noted to be in that genus. So I don't know if hybrids would give scrappy looking peas or plants.



But yeah. I selected out the purple African peas. And I planted them by themselves. I do actually want purple African peas as a main color in such a grex.

But, I'd also like to have a larger pool of genetics and colors for people to choose from. It's an early grex. Early on in its life, so to speak. I guess.


Anyways. I haven't grown cowpeas / African peas too many times. But, I'm in the south now. So I figured I'd give them another shot.



I've noticed a peculiar seedling in the mix of where I planted the purple seeds. Many of those didn't come up. One plant is the multicolored pea that I mentioned. I saw its hull come off when it was coming up.


I have some Chinese Red Noodle beans / peas, planted across from the Promiscuous Peas.

It's probably easy to tell which one is which. Chinese Red Noodle is already showing a different, basic leaf type.

This could mean that those are from a different gene pool than most cowpeas.

Those also tend to have curved Peas / beans. And other traits. They're still the same species.


I'd like to see if these can cross. I don't know if the long pods and larger peas are from the same trait.

But, there's certainly some nice traits over there.


I'd like to try to mix in purple podded or pink podded / blushed cowpeas. Just to see if those would do anything fun in the mix.



The main point of this post. There's a scraggly seedling with odd leaves. The leaves are smooth / waxy. Typical.

But, it's in my grouping of "possibly odd" peas. It may or may not mean anything.

It may not even be anything.


But, if it manages to grow at all, besides this pathetic state. Then, I'd like to see how it looks.


If I remember correctly, Joseph and someone else had their seed included in the mix.

So. I'll just have to see what happens.



Either way, this is still in the seeds and breeding forum.

So, if you are growing promiscuous populations of typically non outcrossing plants. Or they usually never outcross.


Then, I'd be on the lookout for non viable looking seed / weak plants. If these don't grow large enough, then maybe I won't get flowers.

Maybe this just happens with the species, and I don't grow it enough to say one way or another.


But, most people would pull this, because it's weak and small. Typically F1 and F2 interspecifics are weak and small. I'd encourage people to try and set aside areas for this sorta stuff. So that it doesn't impact things that you actually want yields from.


And, if this did outcross with anything, then you'd want to separate it and plant it with some other desirable stuff. Maybe near whatever other species it may have crossed with.


I'm not saying that this is a cross. I'm just saying that it's interesting.


I also have some rust from the looks of it. Probably due to the soil.


We were supposed to have a garden by now. Which, we should have had one way earlier.


I was sort of forced to plant these in this bed. It rains a lot here and raised beds will intake a lot of water, and not in a great way.

So I'm a bit grumpy about that.


Hopefully someone comes over and tills before the ground becomes too wet. Fun.

A repeat of last year.


I may try to talk to people directly since my family puts things off, or whatever.

I said Liberty Belle, elsewhere - etc.

The tag says Liberty Bell. It seems to be heavily flowering at a small stature, already.


There's already a "Liberty Bell" pepper.

Liberty Belle, is typically a yellow bell pepper.

This could be another yellow pepper, with a similar name or something. Or a misspelling.


Just figured that I'd clarify.

Got some store bought tomatoes.

One Tidy Treat - the leaves are glossy and I'm assuming that it's a sweeter tomato.

One Sun Sugar Yellow Cherry. I've grown Sun Gold. I'm actually growing Sun Gold in a planter, Celebrity is in another planter.

Anyways. Sun Gold is sometimes, slightly exserted.

But, I saw Sun Sugar Yellow Cherry. The exsertion, I'll post some flowers.

It's pretty exserted. Those are images from multiple plants.

Mind you, these are in pots. The exsertion could change.


But, every flower seemed to be exserted.



Three beefsteaks. One Better Boy, and a Big Boy tomato.


Two sweet banana peppers. Big Bertha bell, Red Bell II, Yellow Bell and Liberty Bell.  The bells are like one of each.

I mean, I got Liberty bell, just because. So, there's two Yellow bells. Of sorts.



The neighbor had some extra space in her garden for a row or so. Our garden needs tilled.


Anyways. I already have stuff growing in cells and whatever.


All that I have to do to get tomatoes is to walk down the road.


And flowers.  Crossing Wild Tiger with Sun Sugar Yellow Cherry, could be fun. I might need to make a few selections of it first.

I might cross it with Tidy Treat, which also likely has wild heritage of some sort. I planted them side by side. Bees may do it for me.


But, that could be fun.


A Sungold crossed with a Sun Sugar Yellow, maybe. That could be fun as well.

Even if I let them segregate a bit first.


I'd go with those, just because. Smaller tomatoes, crossed together.


And then maybe I can cross them into something larger, like Exserted orange or whatever else.

I believe that others wanted to cross exserted orange with sungold or whatever, already.


Anyways, they didn't carry Sungold. The place that I got Sungold, didn't have this more exserted variety. Or I'd have grabbed a plant.


So, this works out for me, even if they aren't side by side.


Anyways. Some flowers from Sun Sugar Yellow. I don't know how much more exserted they'll be than Sun Gold, once they get going. Or maybe they'll even out and be the same.


I'm assuming that they're from the same or a similar breeding line.


With current stuff on the news, I've been getting motivated to start landraces and whatever.

Hello again.

I am posting another update here.


The sphered area with melons.


I've added to it.


Now, as for what I added?


Beans, mostly pole types. One non pole.


I probably won't be able to have them in the garden this year. It's rainy season. This puts us back a month or two.


The garden isn't tilled. So, when we get a small opening to actually till the garden, I may opt for a small plot.



I'm behind on a lot of bean growing. I have a lot of old, new, free and other bean seed.



I also saw a bush bean grex, a few pole bean grexes, and other such things on The Experimental Farm Network's site.


I am a bit jealous. I didn't pick seed up, but I am a bit jealous.



So, I sorted through what I have stored away from, 2020 and other years.


Kentucky Wonder Pole Bean, Blue Lake Stringless Pole, Scalzo Italian, Provider (Yeah, a bush bean), Marvel Of Venice and Flambeau bean.

I'll be including an image of the beans.


Maybe one of each. They're fairly uniform in their sizes and the like.


Provider went over there, because it's well known and I want to see if I can get it to cross with these other things.



I believe that some of these are heirlooms, with known disease resistances or they're very productive, flower quite a bit.


Some have notable flavors. One packet says "unique beany flavor", Kentucky Wonder. A supermarket packet from 2021. Burpee.

Blue Lake Stringless Pole is from Ferry Morse. Provider is from seed savers exchange, a complimentary packet.

Scalzo Italian was from adaptive seeds in 2021. Flambeau was from J&L Gardens in 2020. Well, those are their packed for dates.


But yeah. I sowed them randomly or in bunches, within the bean crossing block.


The widest or roundest beans were Marvel Of Venice.


I'd like to see if I can get any crosses.

I don't know if I'll use these as food.


Honestly, a packet of beans isn't much in terms of bean plants, for what I have been doing.


And I'm sure that some of these share the same resistances or have the same traits for vigor and whatever.


But yeah. Why not try to grow these together, right?




I also planted some corn around. Same thing, old seed. Lots of different seed.



I mostly planted sweets over there. Not all of the seed. I'd like to keep some just in case.


I planted some Gigante Hominy and Speckled Parching. These aren't sweet corns. But I didn't plant a ton of them.


I'd just like to have some added genetics as a fun lottery sorta deal.


I planted some High Carotene Sweet Corn. From 2021, I had like four seeds left.


Didn't save seed the last time. I likely can't maintain a population with that either.


Plus some Lofthouse Astronomy Sweet corn, the same year.



Those two are nice things to add into the mix. Most of the other corn, is either white or yellow. Or bi-color yellows.


Some whites / silvers.


Burpee's Triple Crown White Hybrid, Silver Queen Hybrid, Golden Cross Bantam Hybrid and Bicolor Hybrid Triple Sweet.


Some of these are probably redundant. I'm also pretty sure that they aren't all hybrids. They're just called "Hybrid", but they're stable. If I remember correctly, at least.


Astronomy Sweet Corn, or whatever it's current name is. That may be a big constituent, for my selection.


And I did plant a few different types of sweet corn.



Supersweets. Others. That whole deal.


I'm also pretty sure that most Super sweets and the like, give potential Supersweets, a bad name.


The sweet genes aren't all tied to the flavors which non "tasteless" corns have. But that's what they're typically bred into.


If you added some different flavors from different corns. The high carotene corn for example, has some interesting flavors, right?


So, yeah. I think that I've seen Supersweet / sweet corn modern mixes of grexes before as well.


But, I have a lot of old seed. So, I may as well start a "fun" project.



A lot of people, seem to love Silver Queen.



So, what else did I plant there?


I planted some Okra in one corner, where the melons are actually planted. Or one variety.


I also chose Burmese Okra, to plant there.


Diagonal from that, I planted Red Drops Roselle in / around, another patch.


Normally you'd have melons and things going before these sorts of things. But, it's a long season here.


It should work out fine. Or, it'll be a fun experiment.




The two other patches got some other things.


Red Foliated White Cotton, and Sea Island Brown Cotton. It's zone 8, so I purchased seed for some cotton.


These are both pretty interesting. One of these is a brown cotton. But, it's said to be descended from "Sea Island Cotton", which is a somewhat hard to find species or variety. It's typically seen as superior to modern cotton and the like.

But, machines usually aren't equipped to weave it, if I remember reading things correctly.


So, yeah it's a brown cotton. But it has something else cool going on, as well.


Red Foliated White, has red Foliage.


These are both Gossypium hirsutum. There's another type of dark leaved cotton. It's another species and another variety. It's a different color, sorta. I'd assume it has another gene responsible for its color as well.

I'd like to try and cross it with this red type at some point, as well. I think that interspecific cotton is a thing.


I planted some Hopi Red Dye Amaranth, and Perennial Blue Flax - plus Brown Flax. These would all be dye plants. Flax is fine growing near mostly anything.


Single packets don't give me a ton of plants.


I want Flax as another fibre for clothing. And dyes.


But, those shouldn't care about having Vines near them or whatever else.


I also sowed Japanese Catnip, Catnip and some yarrow in that area.



These all have their own areas. Some of these, at least.


I don't know if the Flax species here, can or will cross.

I also sowed Eclipta alba. I doubt that it will care about this jungle either.


The Yarrow was old seed. I believe it can be used as a dye plant.


Okra can sometimes support beans, like corn does.



I planted some Stevia and Mayan Mint, in a pot.




And, lasty. Some bush beans.


The seeds seem fairly similar to one another.

New Mexico Bolitas, Mrociumere / Swahili Kijiru, Beurre De Rocquencourt and Royal Burgundy.


I planted those in the same area as West Indian Gherkins and an Ethiopian variety.

Plus some Armenian Cucumbers, Xylengouro melon.

Some Tigger melons and other fun melons.



These beans went in the middle, where I neglected to plant anything.


It's a semi open area, where electric lines were dug up / installed. Yeah.



If nothing else, I'll get a ton of bean seed from this bush bean grouping.


A lot of these were the same size, brown looking. Yeah. The yellow bean may have had different bean colors.


I didn't take photos.


They're bush beans, but yeah. They should be fine where they're at. I'm hoping that I get crosses.


That melon area, is also serving as a crossing block.


I'll post a far away image of it.


I'm unsure if these ideas and fun projects interest anyone else.


But I've gotten a "Well, if my garden isn't getting tilled, I'll make mini gardens" sort of idea.


Which works, I guess.


I can also then, probably trade all sorts of bean mixes and whatever else at some point.



I'll double check the melons names over there, in a bit. I'll post them here.

Green variegated pokeweed.

I'm usually not a fan of variegation.

Sunny Side Up, and Variegata are two other variegated pokeweeds.


One has yellow / chartreuse leaves. The other has some white variegation. I've seen some odd commercial varieties as well.



I saw the types that I'm posting, in the yard back in Pennsylvania. I've only found two, thus far here.



They're pretty cool. I haven't really ever went around and looked at pokeweed elsewhere.


I don't know if these are super rare or if they're common since I found them here, and back home.


I tried to dig one plant up. Vines and things kept messing the shovel up. And there may have been other issues. But, I got some tuber or root parts, tied to the stalks.


I tried some rooting powder on these, and propped them up with dirt blocks. Or soil blocks.


Hopefully they survive. Pokeweed is usually pretty tough.




I may look into buying those other varieties at some point. I'd be interested in hybridizing some of these.


I grew them from seed before, but the areas I planted them, I had to sorta move. Stuff happened.


I moved a rock in the center there, just to prevent the area from being mowed. It should be an obvious "do not mow" spot. But who knows right?



I've pulled some weed over there as well.


I may allow some ground cherries and whatever, to grow as well. I'll see what all comes up. So far I see some black nightshade.


Once some melons get going, they'll probably climb on this pokeweed. If I can find the other plant again (it stormed), then I may dig it up later as well.


Hopefully with the tuber and whatever.



Since I've only found two so far here, I'd like to plant them together and get these to spread.



I don't know if there's anyone else who wants ornamental or cool pokeweed.



I asked some others about the stuff, they thought it was pretty cool.

So. I also have two other, little beds.


Near the large wooden one.


In one of these, the one with cucumbers in some corners.

I planted "Promiscuous African Peas." Plus Chinese Red Noodle beans.

These are both, Vigna unguiculata. Many vigna species can actually cross with one another.


I am assuming that these can, still cross.


If the cowpeas are somewhat Promiscuous, then I'd like to get faster maturing, longer pods with larger beans.


I've also read about sweeter cowpeas, some other odd ones. Others mentioned those to me.


I'm letting Lotus purpureus grow here. I may have already just posted that.


I've also planted Kali Black Gram, and Adzuki beans here.



Bhutan Meets Greg, Dragons Egg, and Richmond Green apple, are in the corners with some corn.



Japanese Sticky corn and Dobranoc are in one corner.


Some corns which the Experimental Farm Network sold last year or so. Nitrogen fixing corns.


I planted those, with Dobranoc Corn and more Japanese Black Sticky.



These are some rather small crossing blocks. But, I didn't space the corn out.


Sticky or waxy corn, is very interesting. It lacks some things that typical corn has.


There is some stuff about it on Wikipedia and elsewhere. You can use it for things, which normal corn can't be used for.

It's also Sticky or Waxy, much like Rice can be.



Corn with anthocyanin, is said to be "fruity" - there's other mention of other flavors.


South American Corn, seems to have a different sort of Anthocyanin, than some North American / Native American corn.


Montana Morado Maize, is supposedly "100% Native American", and it's still being developed.


I'm not growing that, at the moment.


But, it has some nice selections, disease resistances and earliness.


I'm unsure if it has the typical "Maize Morado" flavor, which is commonly used in drinks and the like.


I've become aware, that there's already a Morado / Sticky Thai corn.


Either way. I want to mix these. Dobranoc / Montana Morado and Japanese Black Sticky.

Dobranoc has anthocyanin genes, from South American and North American corns. I don't know if it shares Montana Morado Maize's genetics or has any of that inside of it.



I'm also just growing the Hominy corn, and some others. For some nice traits.


I'd like to select for a sweet corn, with the waxy traits. Plus really high / tasty levels of anthocyanin.




Bed number 2. No cucumbers.



Moonshadow hyacinth beans. Lavender queen butterfly pea and Urizun Japanese winged bean.

Asian species. Obviously, some are from islands of sorts. But, this helps to mitigate some disease risks.



The sides closest to the other bed. I planted Independence Corn, and more of the Nitrogen fixing corns.


Plus, more Dobranoc. I didn't have much Japanese Black Sticky corn left.


The other two corners. Dzit Bacal Ancient Mayan and Independence Corn. Plus, another Nitrogen fixing corn. These would be the furthest away from the other bed.



I've heard rumors of a purple popcorn existing, and that the flavor is different when it's cooked as a popcorn. Boiling, and other things bring out other flavors.


I have some old corn seed lying around. So, I figured, "Why Not?"


Independence Corn has a trait which can help to prevent outcrossing.



I can probably try to mix that into a popcorn lineage. Make a better / novel popcorn. Dunno.



I'm going for a lot of purple stuff. Anthocyanin is a secondary layer or whatever, in a lot of things.


So, you can probably mix and match some things.

I don't know if it's that way in corn or not.



A waxy sweet corn, high antho. The anti outcrossing with other groups, sort of trait.


That could also be pretty nice. I'll have to see what happens.



I've heard of "Neandercorn" or something as well. It may have a perennial corn mixed into it. But, it's not winter hardy.


It still sounds cool.




I'm growing all of these legumes, for the same reasoning as the squash and things.



Hyacinth bean, used to be heavily consumed. Beans and other things have been replacing them.


That's because Hyacinth beans, are toxic.

You need to boil them, leech them and whatever, to consume them.



They're in the same subfamily or whatever as Phaseolus, Vigna and Strophostyles.

I can't quite recall, if they're in the same tribe. But, that's the sole member of its genus I think.


Most people, would prefer to grow something which tastes pretty similar, but isn't toxic / doesn't need leeched.



Urizun Japanese Winged Beans - and the species in general. That's also in the same subfamily and whatever.

It's pods are pretty tough. They're daylength sensitive for the most part.


And they tend to have better alternatives to themselves. They may be perennials in some areas.


Butterfly peas, are pretty cool. They can be used in teas. They're also in that subfamily.



That's a ton of species, which have better alternatives.



With Pisum, Lathyrus and Lens. Common peas, sweet peas / grass peas / Lathyrus tuberosus, and lentils. Those are all in the same sort of tribe or subfamily as one another, but they're not as closely related to beans or any of those other things.


Fava beans are also in this group, if I remember correctly.



Fava beans have a major issue. They have a ton of diseases wiping them out. Insects. Many other things. It's bad. I don't see too many people talking about it.


Also, Grass peas can be fairly toxic. Lathyrus tuberosus tubers, seem fine. Lentils, just like Hyacinth beans, need to be boiled and leeched.

Peas are probably the easiest to consume, out of every legume in this group. And the least toxic.



Some people want to merge Pisum and Lathyrus into one genus. I'd disagree with the decision.


But, if someone could cross Lathyrus tuberosus and grass peas into common peas. And then, maybe remove the associated toxins. Get larger plants, tubers and whatever else.


Weevil resistances. And maybe even work on getting Favas crossed over. That may be more of a challenge.

But, that's the idea.




It's not so simple that it would readily happen. But, just keep on mixing the same species, different variants, hybrid species, and other things into the same pools.


Many of these species are likely going to die out. They have better alternatives.


But, if someone were to cross them. They do all still, have some nice traits. Plus, they all evolved to combat certain pests and diseases.


Some annoying woody pod traits, could take care of some pests, without needing toxic beans.




Peas and things, likely won't cross with beans, ever.


Which is fine. Unless someone does some lab stuff.



Wide crosses tend to have their barriers messed up.





Hypothetically, we could obtain a Phaseolus x Vigna, some day. Outcrossing wide Phaseolus / Vigna interspecifics.

Those, could lead to something.


Even if Vigna unguiculata doesn't seem to outcross with Asian species.



If nothing else, the two genera would be enhanced by crossing whatever species together.


Hokkaido Adzukis, outpace some other vignas in early maturity. Many species have sweet tastes.



Phaseolus and Vigna have likely already infected one another with various diseases. They just haven't become well adapted or an issue yet, I'd imagine.


Within their group, these genera are fairly similar.

Flower structures may be the largest incompatibility. Plus they both tend to self pollinate.


Theres exceptions. But, yeah.



I'd like to grow semi-related species near one another, and hopefully one day, I'll get lucky.



I forgot to mention that I also planted some small Madagascar Speckled Mung beans. They're small.



I also planted Apios americana, a new jersey ecotype. Near the Woolly beans.


I believe that it's in the same tribe as Psophocarpus tetragonolobus / Urizun Japanese Winged bean.


There is an edible Apios species, native to Japan.




But still, this is the beginning of a fun experiment.


I'd like to get the Purple podded Psophocarpus tetragonolobus type as well. I believe that it's daylength sensitive. It should be OK here, nonetheless. And I believe that they outcross, fairly easily.




Lentils also have nice flavors. Whether that's tied to the toxins or not. They're likely going to be superceded and replaced at some point, by relatives.




Pigeons peas, Sword beans and things are also in the same general groupings as some of these. The same goes with Wisteria.


Obviously, Wisteria is toxic.



But yeah. Get these crossed, maybe it'll happen at some point.


Selecting for more open flowers, would probably help a lot.



Lohrey's Old Tasmanian has a salty flavor to it. That's Phaseolus vulgaris.


Austrian Kaeferbohnen, has a "unique chestnut flavor." That's Phaseolus coccineus.


Those two species, can cross. Fairly easily.


These flavors aren't found in beans, or they're rare traits.


With Lohrey's Old Tasmanian, I'm assuming that it's beans accumulate salt, like some other species are known to do. This kills plants which can't handle that at the surface of the soil, when the seeds are dropped.


These are two examples of fun flavors or whatever, that can be mixed in.



I'm including some of this stuff, because it explains why I'm doing or growing some stuff.



And yes. I do plan on growing Austrian Kaeferbohnen and Lohrey's Old Tasmanian, and I'll try to select for both of those flavors which aren't typically found in beans. The chestnut flavor may be semi common in runners. I don't know.


But, there's things other than disease resistances to select for.

I got outside, took some more photos.

The tomatoes aren't much yet. So I don't think they're worth mentioning quite yet.



Regardless. I placed a penny next to some germinating beans.


When beans germinate, they tend to have their cotlydeons grow to the beans full size, when non-dry.


This can help with some things. It likely won't help with hybrids.




Obviously, Paul's Jungle Lima is likely the largest bean. Many of these are fairly uniform in size. Alma's PA Dutch is the smallest.



If I remember correctly, Limas cross more easily with one another, than Common beans do with one another.


There's also Perennial Limas, Annual Limas - and all sorts of different domesticated groups.


Paul's Jungle Lima, is supposedly a very vigorous lima. Even compared to other limas.


This area is going to be a crossing block, this year.


Lots of crossing blocks. Plus, it helps me gather more seed.


I'm still waiting on the runner beans to germinate.



I planted Vignas in another area.



If the Beefy Resilient "gray" pole ends up being a large outcrosser, I'm fairly interested in some runner beans crosses. I don't think that I really want the SI trait.


But, I want the open flowers, and bicolor flowers. Larger flowers. Yeah.


The woolly beans here, seem to be volunteers.

So, that's nice. Hopefully, I can add some diversity to the existing mix from coastal populations, which the Experimental Farm Network offers.

I don't know if I'll be able to confirm if any crosses have popped up, besides the small beans, these all look more or less the same.

I'll try to look for non shattering pods, but most pods didn't shatter right away, unless I left them on the plants for too long. They're dry and not too brittle, days before they shatter. Dry inside.


Yeah. I'll try to select for disease resistances and the like.


Strophostyles is in the same subfamily, and tribe as Vigna and Phaseolus.


The wool is a temperate adaptation. It helps to prevent mold / mildew. Phaseolus polystachios has another temperate adaptation.



So, of course. Growing Phaseolus hybrids, and Strophostyles hybrids - different populations, in the same crossing block.


I feel like that's worthwhile.

I missed out on posting a lot of things.


Anyways, I do have tomatoes planted in cells. It's late, but yeah.

They're small, it's zone 8b. Most of what matters here in this zone, is planting them before it gets too hot.

They can get established, they would die in high heat if planted late.


So, having small plants isn't too bad.



Hopefully the garden gets tilled. For some reason, we keep pushing that off.



Lycium andersonii, Lycium exsertum, Lycium ruthenicum and Lycium barbarum.


Two strains of Lycium ruthenicum. One is from the Experimental Farm Network, the other is from Tradewindsfruit.


One has brown seeds, the other is much lighter. The seeds are pretty uniform in color, per seed packet.



The Experimental Farm Network, got their seed from Sheffields, which means their seed could be from China or anywhere else.


They seem to be germinating at different periods. One started having some germination, a week or so after the other.


I believe that L. exsertum has been come up, at a relatively fast rate.


The common species, I'm not seeing anything yet. The same goes for the other species.


Some ground cherries are coming up. Maybe some eggplants. Bit late for eggplants.




Sadly, the garden not being in yet, means that I've had to resort to a few tactics.



My one friend, said that I can just do little plots, if I don't think I'll get some things planted in time.




So, the area with a rock in the middle.


Sakata's Sweet, Rajasthan Honey / Madhu Ras, Hara Melon, and Amish melon. These are all from Baker Creek.


One packet was to be sold by 2020, another 2022, 2023, 2024.



I'll be adding more sticks, those are to stop the soil from leaking. I added the soil from old pots.





The long bed with beans, should be a tangled mess.



Paul's Jungle Lima, Alma's PA Dutch, Maroon Lima.

Some Dwarf runner beans. A few other beans.


Woolly Beans. Few different variants. I grew both of Prarie moon's Strophostyles species. Both were very small, non woolly types of beans.

I guess that not every woolly bean, has wool.



I also grew an inland woolly bean from Pennsylvania. And the Experimental Farm Network's mix. That was last year. I have some volunteers.



The wide sides, I am growing: Mongogo Du Guatemala and Guicoy on the one side.

Sicana / Cassabanana, in the middle. Yeah. Hopefully that isn't an issue. These are semi closely related to squash. The same tribe or whatever, in the same subfamily.




The other side: North Georgia Candy Roaster, Marina di Chiogga and Musquee De Maroc.


Tetsukabuto is in the middle. I'd like to make a grex, or mix some squash together, to get a humidity resistant sorta squash. Plus some disease resistance.


I also want a long squash, maybe I will cross it with Honeynut, at some point.


I've been talking about growing and crossing these things for a while.


I've heard that Musquee De Maroc and Marina Di Chioggia, both taste pretty good. One is supposedly resistant to humidity. One is from North Africa, the other is from Italy. I had humidity back home in PA.

Its worse here. So, if that's the case. I sorta want that trait.


I'm also interested, in mixing their warted traits together. For fun. To see what happens, if they combine or if they both show up - whatever. One seems like bumpy skin, the other has more of a warting or marking sort of thing going on.



Since I've moved to Mississippi, I've learned that the squash which was normal back home, doesn't do well here. Different pests and diseases.


I'd like to grow a green fleshed Ayote next year, or after I stabilize these into a desired shape / taste and whatever.


I've considered trying to do a large mix or whatever.



But, I can still do that. I just need to save a few generations.



I may try to get rid of the bumpy skins. I've heard that these aren't fun to cut.


I also planted Cucurbita ficifolia over there.





In the rotting squared out bed.


I tossed some small fruited tomato relatives in there. Maybe some other stuff like black nightshade.


F2s of sorts. Habrochaites hybrid. That sorta thing. A literal crossing square.



It's not SI stuff. But yeah.




I did something similar as to what I did with the squash.

Moon and stars (maybe I should've gotten the yellow one?) on one side. Art Combe's Ancient and Wilson's sweet in the other corner.


In the center, Tinda - Praecitrullus fistulosus, and Giant Wax Gourd - Benicasa hispida


These are all in the same tribe. I'm not too sure about planting Asian and African species side by side.


But, I'll have the two in the center doing as they please, and I'll have the watermelons go into another direction - vertically.


The other side: Silver Yamato on one corner. Lemon Drop, on the other. Acanthosicyos naudinianus in the middle - Gemsbok Melon. Tradewindsfruit sold 4 seeds for how much. The species has male and female plants, if I remember correctly.


The odds are that I'll likely get at least one of each gender. If these all germinate and survive.


It's also in the same tribe as these others.


Acanthosicyos has two species in its genus. Praecitrullus has one, Benicasa has one.

Usually, species like these, used to have other relatives. Those likely died out.



Lemon Drop, seems to turn yellow, fruit wise. Before its fully ripe.


That's unlike the other type, which turns yellow when it's ripe. That type, also gets yellow foliage.


With watermelons, they get big fruits. They need energy. Yellow leaves weaken plants and make them susceptible to pests, and can hinder production.

It's unfortunate.



I've seen images of Lemon Drop. The foliage doesn't seem as bad as the usual types, either. It has a few other odd traits.

It's from Japan.


This is another small crossing block.


I'd like to cross Lemon Drop, and Silver Yamato.

Silver Yamato has a "High Quality Texture", and a complex sweet flavor. I've heard that it's up there in the "Best Tasting" category. Well, some people who like the flavor of red watermelons, may call it bland.

I don't like red watermelons.


Lemon Drop, an "Unparalleled flavor", and it's candy sweet, crisp textured.


I would like to select for a large, very nice tasting yellow watermelon.




I can likely just do a few manual crosses.




Wilson's Sweet, I want it's rind striping and whatever.

It's said to be rare, and helps to prevent sunscald or something.

Art Combe's Ancient, can have a "handle."

Watermelons aren't fun to carry. A slight neck, on a hard rinded fruit. This could help with getting a grip on the fruits.


Moon and stars. This has a dark rind color.

Usually, it has a yellow marking on it. Plus, yellow specks.


I don't know if that will match up with Wilson's sweet rind markings or whatever.

Or if that will even show up.



Moon and stars, does have speckling marks on its leaves, just like it's fruit.


This isn't a full on yellow variegation.


Some squash has white lines going through it.

Milk Thistle has white lines going through its leaves.


I don't think that small speckles would effect anything overall.

If anything, it would confirm that a vine has the trait, before it blooms.

In later generations, I can use this for selections.




I'd be crossing the red watermelons together, first.


Just a personal preference to get those crossed and stabilized, first.


I'd have to re-select a bit, here and there.


But, backcrossing would be possible.


If I get something near perfect, but it lacks a good flavor.


I can just do a generation or so of a backcross in whatever direction.


I could select for the yellow rind and flesh, and whatever else, disease resistances. And if I lose the flavors that I'd hopefully like, I can do a backcross.


I don't know how the typical coloration will show up on the watermelon, if it has a yellow rind - moon and stars.


Honestly, the yellow fleshed one, may have been easier to work with.


But, this gives me a straight shot with Silver Yamato and Lemon Drop.


Should be fun. This also gives me two varieties or so, for fallback on, once I get them stabilized.

I could release them as they are, after that.


This may take a little while to breed and whatever.



Art Combe's Ancient, mixed with Moon and stars, is likely to draw some attention. I'd want to retain Art Combe's Ancient, shape. I've heard complaints, that it's seedy.




In the brick planter, I planted Jyanpaku Okinawan Pure White, Mexican sour gherkin, perennial creeping cucumber breeding mix, and Achocha.


Different sides. Those will creep out of the bricks.



I'm planning on letting a lot of things, creep out of their planters.


Bitter melons, and Achocha, seem to be in the same tribe or more closely related than other things, as well.



There's also a local melothria pendula here. If I get fruits, I'll toss them in here. I'd assume that it's more acclimated to things.



Obviously, I'm hoping to cross things with relatives. And hopefully these will do whatever.


Grexes with the same species, but from different areas. Whatever can mess with barriers to hybridization.


Most incompatibilities in a lot of these cases, are pollen structures and a few other things.


So, wide hybrids.


Sicana, Wax Gourd and Tinda. Those three, are losing popularity.

Achocha and some things are as well. Nara melon (Not growing it this year, no seed), and Gemsbok Melon. They have little to no real popularity, outside of where they're native.

There's also African fluted pumpkins. Those are huge, but you more or less just eat the seeds. That's a waste of energy for what it is.


So, I'll likely try to get different variants of the same species, and gradually make populations of hybrids.


This may or may not work out well.


I'm fairly sure that most people have never grown Nara / Gemsbok, near Tinda and Wax Gourd.

Not to this extent. I think.


I'm assuming that nothing big will happen.


But I'm pretty aware, that other crops will replace ones which lack edible flesh, or aren't as tasty, don't grow as well.


Yeah.



But, some of these species still have novel traits, or things which could complement other species.


So, grow them out and hope that something happens.


And keep on tossing in different variants of the same species. Or things in the same genus.




That's probably enough of the cucurbits talk and repetition for now.




So, tomatoes.


I'll be growing Exserted Orange.


Or, I am growing it.



I'll be starting "Your Majesty", late. I want to cross that into it.


I'd also like to cross over Garden Peach.


I'll then unwind all of that, mesh them up together.


Eventually, they'll be a nice, full exserted yellow tomato, or something. Fuzzy / fruity. Yeah.


This is a variety with hairs on the fruit, but not the foliage.


I've read that the related Peach varieties, all came from Peru, in some mountain regions.


The variety is said to be cold tolerant. It has an off-yellow color. It's fruits are fuzzy.


This to me, sounds like it crossed with a wild species of tomato. I believe that the guy who found the tomato, ended up finding one that was exserted.

It likely got crossed with other tomatoes, and spat out a few lineages. The varieties seem slightly different. The yellow ones, are basically the same.

It's like how you have multiple strains of some tomatoes, to an extent.



I can't quite remember where I read some of that. But, yeah.




I'd also like to cross some other tomatoes into Exserted Orange, just for the Exserted trait.


I'll also be trying to stabilize a tomato called "HR's Woolly Currant." Woolly fruit and leaves, but in a different way than typical woolly tomatoes.


Or, I'll get it semi stable, and then cross it into exserted orange.


I want the woolly fruit / leaves, and the "citrus" flavor. Or fruity flavors.

I believe it's a S. galapagese cross. Most crosses are with the other Galapagos tomato.


I'd like to cross a few different woolly tomatoes together. Maybe I'd end up with a wool-ball of a fruit.



I'd also like to try and cross Sart Roloise, into exserted orange.


So far, cream white tomatoes, have tasted the best to me.


Anthocyanin, imparts a fruity flavor into things.


Antho corn has the whole "fruit candy" thing going on. Some beans have that to some extent.

Some tomatillos have that going on.



Black nightshade and Jaltomatas, also seem to have that going on.



J&L Gardens, seems to be offering a tomato with Anthocyanin within the pericarp. To select individuals. So, that's cool.



Woolly kate, woolly blue wine.



I'll likely be crossing woolly kate into Exserted orange, as well.


A lot of these, I'll be trying to pull over, sweet and unique flavors.


I'd assume, that people would be interested in that.


I'm also unsure if Galapagense's "citrus" flavor or scents, are what gives "Sart Roloise", it's flavor.

White beauty and other cream-white tomatoes, share that "tropical" flavor.


I also dislike the taste of most tomatoes.



My mention of Anthocyanin. A fully blue tomato, seems to have a "fruity" / "hard to describe" flavor.


Anthocyanin is like a bonus / overlapping flavor. Besides the benefit of anthocyanin, health wise.


Its basically a showpiece in tomatoes. It's on the outer skin. You won't get a full flavor, if it's like that.


That's probably why the "antho taste" is so off putting to people. It's sort of there, and leaves a trace of its taste.


I'd like to get that flavor, into tomatoes. Not select away from it.



In red tomatoes, it's going to be showing over top of red. Lycopene. Other stuff.


The flavors may not mesh well.


Now, toss it into a pastel white tomato? One that's fruity, sweet and whatever?

That, may pair well. The genes responsible for fruit colors, have tastes. There's different kinds of orange tomatoes, as well. Those have different flavors.


Anthocyanin, likely doesn't fully cover that all up.


I don't know if some flavors are just tied to the white sorta tomatoes or not. Or if citrusy flavors are tied to orange tomatoes or whatever else.


But, I've seen a spike, in the interest of these nicely flavored tomatoes. I'm also a fan of the exserted trait.


I can mix in, a lot of different tomatoes, using it.

I dislike emasculating flowers. They tend to drop or die off in certain conditions.


So, I can select for the trait, while making these crosses. It may seem tedious.


But, I seem to have the good old XXYY thing going on. I am frail, bony and my wrists have had a shake since I was little. Just in my wrists and whatever. I also burn easy, pale.

Its not a fun thing. It could also be why, it seems like my brain works really fast. Dunno. Still a guy and all.


But, I can't really "do" cursive. Or draw, really.


Now. Tomato flowers?


Those are a pain as is. Forget about smaller flowered wild species.



But. Some fellows had the great idea of making an exserted tomato.


With the Galapagos tomato, I'll likely end up with a citrus tasting exserted orange. Nice smelling leaves, fuzzy.

It's probably possible to make something that's more exserted than it is.


I may have to try that out.



I'm growing an Arcanum hybrid. And a few other things.


I likely won't select for the SI trait, at this time.


I don't think that exserted orange really had much wild material, or any at all. It's been a while. I'd have to check on its origins.


Its still a good tomato.


And it seems stable. I want that for what I'm doing.


I also may try to cross Purple Smudge into Exserted orange, as well. It has some cold tolerant genes, due to its Solanum peruvianum heritage.


Plus disease resistances. Some people have been working with S. peruvianum and trying for crosses.

I've heard that the species antho genes, do not move over or work well with other antho tomatoes. It could kill the plant or something?

That's what I've heard. But, it has a different gene for its coloration, than other species. Purple Smudge, has one of them.


I'd like to grow Double Rich, and Burnley Bounty again.

Those would actually work pretty well, moving into another orange tomato.


Then I'd mix those two, and maybe toss them into what I'm making. Something like that.


Burnley Bounty, is daylight sensitive. And it's cold tolerant. So, there's two peruvianum descendants which retained some fun genetics.





That may be a fun project.

I'm choosing "Your Majesty" and "Garden Peach", for a particular reason. The "Your Majesty" tomato, may seem redundant.


But, yeah. It's shape is fun, for one thing.





The tomatoes in the crossing block, with small fruits.


I had a jar marked "Wild Currant From Peru x Habrochaites F2." And, "S. cornelio odd pear shaped J&L."


I can't remember if that's what is in there. I thought that I'd used the seed up, we had to move again. Stuff happened.


I thought that I lost what remained.


I direct sowed the seed.


It's been coming up, gradually.


I mixed in some Arcanum hybrids or whatever. I plucked out some overseeded cells.


I'm not worried about competition with the watermelons.


I'm also not growing that block for food. The tomatoes, likely taste bad. The "Wild Currant Tomato From Peru", has small, tough, skin. It's all juice inside, not really any flesh. Imagine that crossed with S. Habrochaites.


I'll select for larger fruit, if that's what it is.


And that could be the literal F2 seed. I grew the F1 out indoors, since the Habrochaites population seemed fairly stable, and I figured that I could grow the first generation indoors, and mass grow out the F2 outdoors.


If that's what I have, then it could be fun. I sorta gave up on it.

It may have crossed with other Currant tomatoes.


I crossed those two, to begin with, because I wanted a small seeded exserted tomato. Small fruits.


Small flowers. Just for reasons.



Any Currant tomato could ruin that.




This is a long post. I don't know if this interests anyone. But, it's fun to me. I also know that the chances of any crossing going on, is low, with the different Cucurbits.


Plus diseases would be annoying.



I hope that everyone is having a good year.


And, I've heard that hurricanes this year, may be bad.


Be careful. And, remember. Hurricanes elsewhere, tends to means active times when it rains for weeks on end.


I'd prep ahead of time, for planting or not planting things.

I also may or may not grow Sunspots from Hayefield again. It's a variegated leaf sunflower.

It's an unstable mutation. Much like a certain type of petaled sunflower.

There's also Teddy bear sunflower. Plus some white and red or multicolored petal types.



I've also been looking at some "Double" Echinacea. Most of those seem to be patented. A few aren't.

They have poof balls on the landing pad. Or rather, maybe petals grow around it? The landing pad itself still seems visible and the petals appear to surround it.

Puff type have a larger bud / landing pad, with the same thing going on.


There are two other interesting mutations as well.


Echinacea, Paradiso Super-Duper and Double Decker. These both grow second buds on top of the centers of other buds. One has doubled flowers / petals.

Baker Creek sells both of these. They're both noticeably different but some places sell them as the same things.


One mutation is also seeminly stable. The other is unstable. So, they could be different mutations for all I know.

Letting them cross would be fun.


Crossing in green twister would also be nice.



I'd like to grow Chocolate Daisy, Blue Spice basil and Chocolate Cosmos.

These are all fragrant. Chocolate Daisy is fragrant and edible - the fragrance requires crushing / deadheading.


Cosmos sulphureus is edible. There's also some nice looking cosmos of other species.

I've been wanting to cross some edible types over into an ornamental type, alongside Chocolate cosmos while selecting for nice smelling hybrids which are still edible.



Marigolds - there are two other relatives I'd like to grow as well, I'd like to work with those. Plus Dahlias. But those would be on a backburner.



And I'd likely only purchase seed, if I manage to get Purple Galaxy before its sold out.


There's supposedly a marigold species which has lemon tasting petals. That could be fun mixed with some local Rhus species. I've been thinking of making a Lemonade substitute.