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You need at least 2 Adults well trained to take on a pack of Coyotes. I run kangals and kangal/Anatolian crosses on my farm and I run up to 8 of them at any given point because of large Apex predators like Bears and panthers and coywolves. A kangal can match the speed of a coyote and has a PSI bite force of 743 , I have owned and raised this breed of LGD for 34 years now. I also feed raw meat as well as a good high fat high protein kibble, a good pack of guardians will protect there stock from predators some will circle the stock while others will take on the threat and Kangals and Anatolians both will kill any coyotes that cross into their territory.elle sagenev wrote:We are unsure how many coyotes are in our area but Saturday night they were making a huge racket and we lost our ducks. Husband was estimating 10. I'm not sure. Sounded like quite a few. We can lock our poultry up. We should have been but I do so enjoy letting the ducks stay by the ponds we have. Anyway, the concern is for us and the kids if it turns out to be a large pack. We have a great pyr and an akbash. Also have a weim but he's old and has the heart of a rabbit. So the question we've been asking ourselves is if we need another LGD. Opinions?
I run up to 8 working Livestock Guardian dogs at any given point because of a heavy Apex predator load, some stay with stock others hit the property line and deal with the problem. Kangals will kill any coyotes and or feral dogs that enter their territory. My predator load is Bears ,coyotes,coywolf and panthers as well as bob cats and raccoons.K Harris wrote:
Cj Sloane wrote:
K Harris wrote:...Moral of the story- be careful what you choose for an LGD.
... For an LGD to be successful he must be fast enough to run the coyote down.
...
PS. Don't ever feed your dog raw or bloody meat. Ii is not uncommon for dogs that have lived and even played with small animals their whole life to turn into a born again natural killers once they realize that these animals are tasty food and are fun and easy to kill. I have personally seen 3 different dogs (German Shepard, Collie, Husky) turn killer after playing with other animals and accidentally hurting/killing them. Once they tasted the blood they killed and all 3 went crazy and killed repeatedly. Victims were 6 kittens, 22 chickens, 9 piglets.
I think these are good stories but none of them applies to true LGDs. By that I mean the breeds meant to be livestock guardians like Maremmas, Pyrs, Kuvatz and so on. These dogs are NOT supposed to kill predators, they are supposed to convince them there are easier meals elsewhere. Sometimes that does mean killing though. They are defensive and not offensive.
So a true LGD should NOT have to run down a coyote.
You CAN feed them raw meat, I do and so do others. LGDs know the difference between the animals they are supposed to protect and their food. Also, they will eat still-borns or other dead livestock so as not to draw in predators.
Very romantic. Maybe, I'm just too old (65) to understand, but, thanks for trying to set me straight.
I must admit that I don't know anything about these exotic Euro super dogs that are capable of such rational thought. However, I can't imagine a coyote pack being afraid of a dog that can't keep up with them (maybe your LGDs are good ambushers?) and doesn't even try to kill them. Where does your LGDs chase the coyotes off to? Over to your neighbors (neighbors must love that)? And then his LGD chases it back? Repeat until the coyote dies of exhaustion, hunger, or gets so weak your poor ol LGD can finally catch him? Then what? .....I, personally, would prefer an "untrue" LGD that took the coyote out, not tired him out. After his buddies saw what happened, then, they might decide to look for a meal elsewhere. That's probably not PC?
Defensive - offensive? Maybe I misunderstood. It sounded like you said your Euro dogs are defensive. Seems to me, if the coyote comes up to the barnyard looking for a meal he is offensive, and the dog is playing defense. I don't see your point. Are you saying that if the dog attacks the coyote before the coyote attacks one of my animals that the dog is offensive? In that case I definitely don't want a defensive Euro dog. This is not like calling the police after a crime, it's more like crime prevention.
I live in the west, maybe coyotes are a bigger problem here than where you live. There is lots of room for the coyotes to make a living. If he chooses to make a living around the house/barnyard, then he is making a big mistake.
As for as eating stillborn and dead livestock, you got to wonder how they got dead in the first place. Every rancher/farmer that I've ever known would have shot the dog as soon as they saw it eating their livestock. Guess they must be killing a lot of innocent dogs. Maybe you should inform them that the dog is just trying to keep the dead livestock from drawing in predators. Maybe, hire a detective to prove that the coyotes killed it (or other cause of death) and then your dog wisely decided to get rid of the temptation to the coyotes by eating the livestock. (Rancher probably doesn't care - even if the dog is innocent of killing his livestock, the dog has just developed an expensive taste) But wait, why would a dog chase off such nice coyotes that provide them with such tasty meals? Sounds like these Euro dogs may be smarter than their owners. I could go on and on, but the bottom line is........... it is your livestock/pets/$$$ down the drain...........do whatever suits you, but, if your neighbor catches your LGD helping him get rid of his "dead livestock so as not to draw in predators" by eating them and kills your LGD, I'm sure that you will understand that not everyone shares your view.
Also, allowing your dogs to eat raw meat also makes them more vulnerable to 2 legged predators. Picky eaters like cats are hard to poison, dogs are easy. Put a little rat poison in a ball of hamburger meat, 1 for each dog, toss it to the dogs, go drink a beer, and come back and do whatever it is that you came to do. Dogs gulp their meat down and will never detect the poison. You just made it a little easier for the bad guys to take out your dogs noiselessly. Maybe even get you off property while you are taking the dog to the vet to find out whats wrong with the dog. I find it extremely hard to teach a dog not to eat raw meat, but I do my best. I try to teach them to only eat out of their food bowl, period. Haven't had much success with that either. What can you say about animals that think cat poo is candy?
I know that its been a while since I lived on a farm, apparently things have changed a lot and I am a little out of touch, but, when did farm/ranch dogs become acronyms (LGDs) and where did you come up with your definition of what a "true LGD" is? The collies that we had were much larger (tall, skinny, long brown, tan, & white hair) than the collies I see today. They were smart, fast, could go over any fence, and were good at both herding (anything) and protecting. They were also born and raised on the farm so that they considered all of the farm animals as their family/charge. I have trained many dogs and in my experience, females (larger is better) that have had at least 1 litter make for more protective guards. They don't run about as much, except when in heat, and the maternal instinct makes them more likely to fight to the death protecting their family/charge. Most males will beat a retreat, if they can, as soon as they realize that they have lost the fight. To avoid losing my LGD to coyotes, multiple LGDs working together would be my choice for dealing with coyote packs.
I have mini zebu and mini lineback and I have a heavy Apex predator load so I run Kangals and Kangal/Anatolians with my livestock and poultry.Cj Sloane wrote:I live about 2 miles from town hall and they have a noon whistle.
I live on the side of a mountain and I heard the coyotes moved to the valley, near the river. It's been many years since I heard them. My neighbors have dogs but their not LGDs and they are not the kind of dogs that would kill coyotes either. Plenty of hunter around here but the goal isn't extermination.
Two neighbors have dairy cows but these are Vermont coyotes, unlikely to take down a cow. I have belted galloways and they don't really need protection from coyotes either.
You need at least 2 adult well trained guardians to take on a large coyote pack.elle sagenev wrote:We are unsure how many coyotes are in our area but Saturday night they were making a huge racket and we lost our ducks. Husband was estimating 10. I'm not sure. Sounded like quite a few. We can lock our poultry up. We should have been but I do so enjoy letting the ducks stay by the ponds we have. Anyway, the concern is for us and the kids if it turns out to be a large pack. We have a great pyr and an akbash. Also have a weim but he's old and has the heart of a rabbit. So the question we've been asking ourselves is if we need another LGD. Opinions?