niko horster

Hi there.not sure where the idea of maple being toxic came from. Have been cutting sugar maple aapli mg s and hanging them in the barn rafters to dry for winter feed supplement for years. Cows and goats love them.
Lots of minerals and trace elements.
The comments on rotational grazing and move stocking are right on. It is incredibly hard to implement if you don't have the right infrastructure though. I would suggest pigs in rotation with chickens. Then follow with cows and sheep 1 to 2 years later. Meanwhile leave the cows in the woods.
My cows like the pig pastures best.
Protect the trees you want and let them have at it with the rest. Feed hay year round to supplement and be fore you k ow it you have awesome soil and pasture. Then put the pigs in and see what happens.
I am in central VT and am restoring abused pasture with pigs chickens and cows.

Hi Karen,

thanks for your purple whatever the forum calls msg. I am in Vershire, more in the central part of the state, there are a bunch of permies up your way, like Ben Falk, Brendan Angrisani etc. . I think it would be neat to get an online group together and then see if we can visit to learn on site.

niko

Chris, LM, thanks for the follow up. LM, it sounds like we do things pretty similar. I have fed bales last winter over marginal ground and was thrilled to see the effect on fertility it had this year. Some of my best grass there now. I frost seeded clover as well after dragging the area to distribute the left overs more evenly.
I agree that moisture management is key in our climate. Like the idea of using a pallet under the bale, will give that a try. how many pallets do you have in the field frozen to the ground by the time spring comes around? I would expect to loose a few.
The ice crusting is the real issue and also the density of the snow. 3' of Idaho or Utah! (love the exclamation mark on the license plates) is a completely different thing than 3' of March snow in NE.
The horse pawing effect is new to me. Might be worth trying, more likely to try sheep, how about Icelandic of some other hardy breed.
the browse idea is good and had in the past been used by oldtimers, cut down saplings in the fall before leaves turn and hang them in the barn rafters to dry, then feed out with the hay, great source of minerals and roughage to balance the balage.
i agree that plastic is the worst part of it. Maybe we will get the biodegradable plastic sometime. We have started using it for veggies crops, and it works well, but is much thinner than the usual black plastic and tears easy.

Chris: I would love to talk about my limited experience of using Berm and Swale and grazing.

Best,

Niko

hmm, thanks for your reply. the urine test is interesting, i will try that. Do pool water test strips work for that? I would think that there is a broad spectrum the cows can eat without changing ph a lot and not gaining a lot either. That is why I was thinking of adding more energy by using corn forage and oats at milk stage forage. Supplements are out of the question financially, I agree.

I have not met anyone up our way who is totally no hay, a few good managers can do about 50% no hay, which is probably where the sweet spot is. Feeding whole bales is probably not a great idea either here, too wet, the hay will definitely not be edible the 2nd season. maybe not even the 1st after sitting out more than 30 days.

I have distributed wrapped bales on snow and moved the cattle around like that. works well.

Thanks again for taking time to answer questions here.

As an aside:
i have established the beginnigs of a swale and berm system on my pasture land, don't see how it works on hay land, and the results are great. Works.

Niko

Hi Chris,

I am on your list and listen to a fair amount of the interviews you post. Some really great stuff in there.
I have a small herd of cattle (cow/calf through finish) in Vt (23 head) and would like to hear your take on finishing with planted annuals (corn and oats) to extend the finish season out of the spring flush time window. I would also like to hear a bit about winter feeding in our climate, cold and snowy, lots of ice crusting some years. long winter 200 days on average. Wrapped bales vs hay vs stockpile etc.
all I have heard is from people in much milder climes doing the no hay thing, is anyone doing it here?

Best,

niko