Nynke Muller

Hugel pots! Thats new!
Definitly going to give this a try!
I have some pruning residue that needs processing anyway and I have some seedlings that need transplanting. So many solutions..!
I will experiment with bundles of branches with different thickness and maybe different freshness I think.
Thanks everyone for the inspiration!
By the way, does it matter whether branches are placed upside down? Or should they be applied upside up?

You are welcome Tim.

I am not familiar with your climate nor your area. Maybe someone else can step in.

I actually do most of my pruning in summer. I only cut young fresh shoots then, so the wounds are small. Actually I "correct" my trees all summer with small cuts, leaving small wounds that close quickely. My last pruning is in august, so there is still some slow growth afterwards.

For me, winterpruning is only for big corrections, which I try to avoid. During winterpruning I correct mistakes from the past, when I did not know what I was doing yet. The winterpruning causes much larger wounds that take much more time to close, and maybe never close at all.

Never the less, I pruned a large branche of one apple tree this year, because my tree becomes too big. Now I expect this tree to react with extra growth because of the small disbalance I have caused. I will keep an eye on this tree this summer and hope to restore the balance in the same year. Than next years will be only small cuts during summer.

I saw in one of your pictures, a branche entangled in the mess, that is not connected to a tree anymore. Such (dead) branches are more likely to cause disease than any clean cut in healthy tissue. You should remove such branches first. They help cleaning up  the mess. Clearing them, will give you a better view of the structure. These loose branches don't count for the "max one third" that you are allowed to remove.

Good luck with the pruning. It will be all right some day!

Hi Tim,
Oops that got out of controle!
I am in no way an expert, but I did manage to get some old apple trees back in check.

The good news:
1. The apple trees behave (biologically) normal;
2. The problem can be fixed.
3. Your plan is good, but needs some refinement;
4. We permies are here to help.

What you need to understand:
1. The visible part of the tree has an equally sized, invisible part under ground. They are in balance.
2. If we disturb the balance (by pruning), the tree will try to restore the balance (by vigourous growth)
3. NEVER take away more than one third of the tree at once (some people say even less).
4. Prune in winter for shape.
5. Prune in summer to reduce vigour.
6. Always cut above a bud that is in the direction in which you want the branch to grow.

Back to your plan:
1. It is winter, so prune for shape:
Take away the "4 D's": Dead, Diseased, Damaged or Disfunctional branches.
Examples of disfunctional branches: Branches that grow through or towards the center of the tree; Branches that are too close to other branches and will be future trouble when they get big. Branches that are crossing and will rub on each other when heavy with fruit (not damaged yet).
Please be aware: you can remove ONLY ONE in three branches, because otherwise you will get more disbalance and more vigourous regrowth.

2. Take a good look at your tree. It has no leaves, you can see the structure very well.
Think of what you want to keep. Make notes for later if necessary.
If you have removed less than 1 third of the branches, you can prune some more if you want.

3. In spring, watch what happens. Your tree responds with new growth. Do nothing yet.

4. After summer solstice start pruning your tree again:
Start with the "4 D's" again: Dead, Diseased, Damaged or Disfunctional branches.
Now is a good time to bend young branches (watersprouts if there are no other options) in a functional direction.
Be sure to remove ALL other vertical watersprouts this time.
But NEVER more than one third of the problem.
Take a good look at the new growth: if it is very long, you can remove half of the length (with the apial bud) and promote side shoots and blossom for next year.

Next year you will have apples again.
Rinse and repeat the pruning. Over time the balance will return, together with the shape of the tree.
When the balance starts to return, you can start pruning for light (shape) in winter, and you will only cut long vigourous shoots in summer.

In the mean time, continue to watch good apple pruning movies. Good people to learn from:
- Stefan Sobkowiak
- Michael Phillips
And some more that I don't remember right now.

Good luck Tim,
Please post a picture when you're done pruning and one of each season, so we can follow the response from the tree and help you with more advice when necessary.

Ned Harr wrote:I thought nanotechnology is a system that can be viewed in its entirety on the nanometer scale...

Agreed!

Hi Ronaldo and Christopher,

To me (an enineer), "nano" means very small, and "technology" is just the way human-made things work or perhaps our understanding of how things work. To me "nano-technology" means technology on a very small scale. I think plants are applying a lot of "nano-biology" which inspires engineers to invent all kind of things we call "nano-technology".

I don't think that Technology is good or bad in itselves. It depends on how we apply it. I think knitting is technology as well as building a house. More complex forms of technology are computers and AI. Technology is nothing to fear. Only people using it can harm us. As an engineer, I do feel a responibility for what I am working on. For me, weapons: NO! Bicycles: YES!

I am moving towards a more sustainable life. Therefore I think a lot about sustainable technology as well as technology applied to grow food. In the Netherlands, where I live, there are high tech farms that grow letuce under growlights. They have multiple growing units piled on top of each other, meters high! So they can grow a lot of lettuce on a small ground surface. I think it is verry cool, and maybe it helps settlers on Mars one day. However, as a Permie I wonder about the "law of conservation of energie". Even if one would use solar panels to produce the energy to make this light (only purple and red, because plants don't need the green light to grow), would one not need a larger surface than the piles of lettuce growing units take up? And to what ratio is surface uptake with regard to growing lettuce on that same surface in stead? (Not even considering the energy spend on manufacturing the units, the solar panels, the building. The watering systems etc).

Back to your question Ronaldo: I think permaculture teaches us to use all that nature brings to the table. When we use it right, we don't need that much technology. However, I am grateful for the way technology makes it possible to learn from each other here on permies.

So Ronaldo, what kind of "green nano technology" are you talking about?

Dear Rufaro,
You are a great person, and so is Apo!
I have started to read your story today. You have done a great job. And you are taking care of Apo and other people as well.
I hope Apo will feel beter about himself soon and I wish he could see what I see: A man who is working hard to improve his life and that of his familie. He has my respect.

Good morning Apo,
I just finished my peanut butter sandwich. Because of your story, I was thinking about the people who grow the peanuts and make the butter. I don't know them. I know only one person who does, and that is you. So I thought of you this morning. From today on forward, I will be thinking of you when I eat peanut butter. Thank you for your story. Keep growing!

Thank you Rufaro, for sharing your story. It reminds me to count my blessings. I am happy for you that your daughter is back in your life. I wish I could buy some peanut butter from you, because I eat it every day. I wish you the best of luck!

I think we have to consider the Wheaton Eco Scale here.

If you don't know that a tomato grows on a plant, I will show you. Early in the season, I will give you a spare seedling, later in the season, I let you taste one. A cutting from a strawberry plant is quickly planted in a recycled pot for a child (or grown-up)  to take home. If it sparkes curiousity, we move to the next level.
- You have no tomatoes at all? Oh, you cut all the flowers off, because you preffered the plant growing tomatoes?....I know what to explain next.
- Your plant died, even though you watered twice a day? OK maybe we can talk about mulch to retain moisture....

When someone is affraid to taste a strawberry because it was on the plant just a second ago and I did not "do anything" to it before offering her, I am not going to tell her there is fungus and bacteria in the soil that it grew in.

I love talking permaculture, and it is a great word indeed! I love to be around people who know what it means, I love to learn from people who are higher on the scale than me and get I inspired by their work. However, being in a city, the majority is not ready to even apprehend what we are talking about here. Even for myself, a farmers grand daughter, who was always interested in growing plants, it took some time to embrace  permaculture and actually love having a messy garden full of weeds. Like me, other people need some time to arrive were I am. When I help them with baby steps, I will ultimately be surrounded by a lot of permies!

I agree with most of the previous comments. I tell everybody about growing (part of) my own food. I regularly share my abundance: mostly fruit and sometimes jams etc. That can start conversations of all kinds. To those who are interested in growing, I show my garden. Since my garden looks different from what they expect, it starts a new conversation. There is always someting going on, and everybody is intrigued bij something else, so sometimes we talk about the weeds, sometimes about the mulch; the unusual fruit; companion planting, whatever makes it happen.

When people visit my garden, we have a cup of tea, and chat about whatever comes up, next I give them a garden tour. I almost never finish the tour. Somewhere I usually loose their attention. It can be that they are not that interested. Some people are, but get overwhelmed by the information and the new impressions. Sometimes their kids like it more and their attention span is just short. When it stops, we have another drink. Manny return voluntarilly. Than I rinse and repeat. During a second tour, they have more questions. Sometimes they have started something in their own garden, and they share their experience. The second time we don't finish the tour either. Only long term revisitors who are becoming permies themselves (whether they know it or not), can finish the tour, and that takes a long time, though it is a small garden.

I always start where the people are. I have a friend who had no idea that radishes grow underground. Therefore her young daughter did not harvest them and they started developing seedpots. She showed me a picture of what she thought was a bean plant. I tried not to laugh and explained about radishes growing underground. I told here about saving the seeds and try again next year. She could not believe it worked that way. She shared the seeds (from only one plant) with her family and friends. Even her father, who lives in an elderly home, started a few seeds in a pot. Next year, during a party at her house, a lot of people told me about the magic of growing a radish from seed. "...and they grow underground! ... and if you don't harvest the radish, it grows new seeds!" They have truely experienced a miracle that they think worth sharing, and continue to do so until this day.

I always think this is a shocking, but funny anekdote. I regularly share it with all kind of people. A lot of people are missing my point: they had no idea that radishes are growing underground... All those people are far away from being a permie, but some of them have visited my garden (where they looked at a tomato growing on a plant. "... it is green before it becomes red!? And it grows from a flower!?"). Some of them visited my garden more than once. Some started growing something themselves, some just feel happy there. Sometimes I think this is my most succesful gardening achievement: reaching such a large group of completely disconnected people and just reconnect them with nature.