manitoulin mary

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since Feb 14, 2010
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Manitoulin Island, Ontario zone 5a
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Recent posts by manitoulin mary

Dear Margot,

Yes, idea bouncing is one of my favorite sports.

Well done straw bale walls hold up to damp air (but not liquid water) fairly well in all but the most torrid of hot humid climates (possible in a greenhouse, even in Alberta)  They " breathe ", allowing humidity to pass through them, thus gradually equalizing the greenhouse and home humidity. Putting concrete plaster coverings (non breathing) over them is generally a recipe for disaster, but natural earthen/lime type plasters are hydroscopic - allowing water vapour to pass through and greatly reducing condensation problems.

While many straw bale houses have never had any problems at all - I have seen a few with issues. The problem I have seen most often in some of my friend's buildings relates to the fact  that the plaster covering over the straw bales must be perfectly sealed. A small thin/missed area of plaster, or more commonly, a slight settling of the foundation or the wall getting bumped by a car and  UGH! you get a microscopic crack that allows liquid water (as opposed to water vapour in the air) in. Wet straw composts, leaving a wall made up of 2 plaster sheets, a big air space and some  lovely black compost at the bottom of the wall. Sometimes builders will dip the straw bales in a tank of clay slurry before stacking them on the wall - to make sure as many cracks and crevices as possible are coated with clay. Of course, a good hat ( roof) and good boots (foundation) are vital.

Another version of building with clay and straw is the technique often called light clay straw. This process thoroughly coats each blade of straw with clay. Well coated straw essentially doesn't rot, mold or burn well - and is helped in its insulation value via the air pocket inside the centre of each stem of straw.

The bales of straw are opened up and loosely piled on a tarp. Then a fairly thin clay slurry is poured over the straw and mixed with pitchforks - like tossing a salad with salad dressing. The coated straw is then packed into 2 parallel wooden  forms, usually about 2 feet high and 1 foot apart. This is sort of like poured adobe or poured concrete walls. The coated straw can be tramped down by walking on it or by hand, using firming tools to get into the corners. After that layer of wall is dry, the forms are moved up and another layer of wall is created over the first. If the straw is well tamped down, the wall surface is fairly smooth and attractive. Varying the proportions of straw to clay produces different effects.  It can be covered with a lime plaster, etc if desired.

Straw bale, light clay straw and adobe are examples of a continuum of  wall building  techniques that use clay and straw. Straw bale has the most straw (insulation) and the least clay (thermal mass) -  adobe the most clay and the least straw. Light clay straw is more or less in the middle. It still has pretty good insulation properties - approx 30 R value for a foot thick wall, but of course strict R values are hard to apply/compare  when using natural building materials. Effective R value is maybe a more useful term , but a certain amount of estimation  has to be used, as natural materials and exactly how they are applied vary so much.  I feel there is a point of diminishing returns anyway when it comes to insulation - somewhere in the range of 30 for the walls is ok for me, esp when the walls are monolithic in size. The thermal mass of the wall ( and surrounding floors,etc) plays a big part in this equation. Another reason I have chosen light clay straw walls is the high amount of thermal mass they possess.

The greenhouse I am designing will allow the winter sun to shine in and onto the wall (made out light clay straw 1 foot thick) separating the greenhouse form the house, allowing direct thermal heating of the wall. There will also be a row of 55 gallon black water drums in front of this wall because nothing beats good old  water for storing heat. There will also be 2 foot high raised growing beds filled with dirt, a concrete patio stone walk way and, up in the rafters, more water tanks for pre-heating domestic hot water - all will help store heat.

I plan on covering the surface of the northern wall of the greenhouse with a layer of lime plaster (likely mixed with a little ground charcoal to darken it for heat absorption) to increase its moisture resistance. I am comfortable that the light clay straw wall and lime plaster combo will not mold and cause air quality problems, even in a greenhouse. In fact, the clay in the wall acts as an air-purifier. I have read of this type of wall holding up well even in saunas.

You might suggest a rammed earth, light clay straw, poured adobe or adobe brick wall covered with lime plaster to your clients for that northern greenhouse wall and use straw bale for the other walls of the dwelling area. I find that the general public now `gets`straw bale construction, but it takes a bit of effort to explain these other, less familiar options to them. They seem less romantic somehow. To fire the imagination, think about using  other natural materials instead of straw for the mix. I have seen video of dried cowpatties being used in Africa and have heard of chopped cat tail stems or fluff,dried willow tops,shredded paper,saw dust,etc being tried.

I am tentatively planing to use durisol (recycled wood and concrete mix) blocks for the below grade construction of the house and greenhouse, including the cold cellar. These are insulated forms that are put in place and secured with rebar, then regular concrete is poured inside them. This still uses some concrete, which I would prefer to avoid, but it does minimize it. They are made in Canada - check out their website and let me know what you think. Another possible options are using earth bags or rubble trench foundations.

http://www.durisolbuild.com/default.html

For insulating the floor of the greenhouse, I am leaning toward having a dirt floor covered in the pathways with simple concrete patio stones to keep things cleaner. The growing beds on either side of the central path will have a dirt floor going down the natural earth. The insulation is in the foundation and knee wall AND (here`s the trick) extending out under ground at a slant from the foundation like a skirt. The idea is to pump heat into the dirt under the greenhouse and trap it there with the foundation and skirt insulation. A very large fly-wheel effect that should provide residual heat from the summer warmed earth through the winter. Pumping the heat into the underlying dirt can be passive or active, with fans and airtubes in the ground. The permaculture consultant that I hired, Gregoire Lamoureux suggested this system. Have you heard of itÉ I still need to do more research on it.

Anyway, enough for now. I will check out the Solviva info - thanks for the lead. It helps me to write some of this stuff down - I have to semi-organize my thoughts. The idea ball is in your court. Good luck and hope to hear from you soon - although in the summer I only go on the computer on rainy days like today.

Mary


14 years ago
I am also planing an attached solar greenhouse on Manitoulin Island, Ontario - zone 4b/5a. Not as cold as you , but still northern. I would be interested in bouncing around ideas with you.

I am considering a small scale tank of tilapia with floating lettuce on top. as the attched greenhouse (40 ft long, 10 ft wide) will communicate fairly openly with my home (to be built of 1 foot thick light clay straw infill with post and beam frame), I'm not sure how much livestock I want to smell. I like chickens and have put my chicken tractor inside our unheated ,simple plastic covered hoop house in the winter. This works well for both the animals and the plants.

I am still drawing up my plans- could post them for consideration and idea sharing when they are ready. I know I will need at least 1 roof vent for summer ventilation - hate to put a hole in the roof. I hear lots of horror stories about leaking roof vents and sky lights. I am hoping there are newer products available that are more reliable. Do you know of any Canadian sources?

Mary
14 years ago
Another permaculture course offered this summer in Ontario-

On magical Manitoulin Island

Introduction to Permaculture --- July 30 to Aug 2

Empower yourself to create a sustainable future! On site camping and hands-on experience at the Tilson homestead near Little Current, Ontario

$350 cd - includes camping and local, organic meals
scholarships available

Teachers-
Justin Tilson
Jillian Hovey  www.jilianhovey.com

visit www. manitoulinpermaculture.com or
phone 778-371-4059  or
email  manitoulinpermaculture@gmail.com


By the way, I have hired Gregoire Lamaureux to come to my farm on Manitoulin ( near Tehkummah) to help me plan my own homestead, esp drainage issues. He has been great on the phone - will post updates later. He will swing by here on his way to Orangeville.
14 years ago
Actually, Mat is concerned about the chemical ingredients other than the sunflower oil he has to use in order to make the biodiesil, as well as the toxic left over byproducts. This process is not earth friendly.Also, it may well be that a time will come in the not-so-distance when the needed chemical ingredients are not easily available.

Sunflower oil itself can be made from all natural, safe ingredients.This is ,of course, ignoring what went into mining and making the metal parts of the machines used, etc.
14 years ago
We are only in zone 5a -not as cold as you.  I have a long standing interest in heritage breeds. A club I belong to- Rare Breeds Canada- has info on cold hardiness and helpful members who might be able to answer some of your questions.

My daughter and I have ordered a few Chanticler chicks for this spring -- a Canadian breed from Quebec once widely grown that is famous for its extreme cold hardiness. It has a small comb that does get frostbite easily, etc. It is now a rare breed but has received a lot of press over the last year, making it popular again with small chicken flock holders and sustainable living folks.

It is difficult to buy this year due to the sudden surge in buyers, but by next year supply should be much larger -- chickens reproduce as fast as bunnies.

I really feel we will need the deep and varied gene pool heritage breeds of both animals and plants carry. When the climate changes and agricultural practices are forced to change in response to peak oil, etc the extremely inbred limited number of breeds currently being produced in large numbers will not be the ones adapted to the new reality.

They will need "improving" from the old gene stock. Ironic, when they were originally created as "improvements" of the old breeds.

Our small flock of chickens overwinters well in their portable chicken tractor. We push it into one end of an unheated greenhouse, where it stays for the winter. We bank the outsides with thick straw for insulation. Inside,we keep adding thick bedding every week, but don't clean it out until spring. The birds and the composting bedding/droppings provide some heat for the plants in the greenhouse and some oxygen too. We do have to take them warm water every day- it freezes in there.

In the spring we move the chicken tractor back out side and are left with a very rich planting bed where they spent the winter. We shovel some of it to other beds and then grow mongo cucurbits there.

Hope this helps

Mary
14 years ago
My genius friend, Mat Redsell, presses literally tonns of sunflower oil in his backyard shed in Port Burwell, Ontario. He runs his car on it , uses it to run heaters and the cookstove  in his house, and used to make alot of biodesil out of it, but he is getting away from the biodesil now.-too toxic

He is interested in selling in his local area food grade sunflower oil from sunflowers grown on his neighbor's farm  - currently working through the health regs on that.

He has 2 really big but simple oil presses and runs them off of solar power. I think he separates the oil from the pulp using the spin cycle of an old washing machine that he converted to the purpose.

He also built his own windmill and is constantly inventing a variety of sustainable living thingamabobs, like sunken passive solar greenhouses and  commercial cargo bicycles.  He grows nearly all his own food on a city lot in a generally permaculture way and is a champion of the urban chicken.

Check out his website at www. continuo.com. I am sure he would be willing to talk to serious sunflower oil pressers or wanbe pressers.

Mary
14 years ago