P. Degen

Hey Permies,

Another year and some another experiences.

A small recap on what happened last year.
- tried to rake the leaves, it went actually good. I thought i was doing good!
- found out the pond is not 1.70m deep. it is only tops 1.10m deep. With a good 20cm of thick sludge.
     - I checked this with the back part of a meter ground drill
- the whole of summer of 2021 there was a green carpet of duckweed.
- bought myself a small solar paneled bubbles system
- checked the water many times, it is not that bad!!!
- after de duckweed left the pond in autumn, i got some buckets to restart the pond.
- during the winter it actually seemed good.
- spring came and damn! the water was getting clear, we bought some waterplants (not far enough but for a pond 20by40by1m is a lot of money)
- everything was growing, lots of life. We saw so many water flees. sometimes red dots you could see from shore.
- waster became so clear that I could see that there are a lot of leaves in the water, like really a lot!!!
    - when I measered it, the metal pole went right through.
    - I would say at least 30% of the pond is almost  70cm covered in leaves (like in height, 1.10 deep, 20 cm thick sludge, 70 cm leaves, 20 cm free till surface)
- water lilli's started to grow, Yellow Iris, lisdodde (Typha latifolia), it was looking good.
-built a overflow with the stream in the back. But only works when groundwater comes in the pond. (it is better than nothing right?)

But since 4 weeks the duckweed is back!!.. Tried to scoop it out, I allready covered more than 10m2 as mulch. I even got 2 fish from the neighbours pond. 2 grasscarp around 30cm. I actually didn't want them in the first place. But because of a storm, an old dead pine tree felt in the pond and took with him a couple of bushes and small trees. That pond is really dead on the moment, it became purple and shit. Never seen something like this very weird!... But also those fish can't compete with the growth of the duckweed. We also get around 2to5 ducks every day. But it is way to much for them.

Any short term solutions?

Maybe, if i get the misses so far, I want to deplete the pond (with the stream in the back) and remodel the whole pond. Will share all the details whenever i'm going  through with my plan.
Another plan is to get as many oxygen plants from other nature ponds/lake/streams during autumn, and hopefully they can compete next year for nutrients.

What do you permies think of this? Is it even possible with so many nutrients in the pond?

Gr. Peter

     

A small recap on some of the questions i got before:
- steep banks is what you see, but it isn't that bad. below the water surface is sloping. (we will remodel this later on, so it looks more naturally)
- pine trees are far enough from the pond, the measurements of the pond were getting better and better (till new duckweed)
- we got this spring, lots of dragonflies, lots of strange water creatures, salamanders, frogs. It was great!
- I bought the book, building natural ponds, was great. got 2 others now. Thanks for the tip. Look for yourself "anna Hofman"
- I changed the plan from fishing pond to a healthy clear pond (now I jut need a shitload of oxygen plants haha).

Next year will be better! but it is such a long wait haha

Thanks you all for the likes, the advice, the discussion. It really openend my eyes last year. I know so much more, but far not enough. Hope to see more post! Especially for removing and getting rid of duckweed

Hey Permies,

So I just came back from our piece of land and I have some data for you guy's, and some pictures.
We bought the fishtank tester kit. We tried it out right away with our tapwater. This was our score:
                                  Chloride    PH        KH        GH       nitriti    nitrate
tap water home             0           7.4        10         10           0           25
So last weekend I tried the healthy pond with small carp all natural
                                        0           6.4        6           7             0            0
The other pond with big carps, lots of overgrowing waterpest (Elodea) and human interference
                                       0           6.4         5           6             0            0
our pond (tested 2x)     0            6           4.5       5.5           0           0
As last I  also tested our hand water pump for our drinking water (we boil it)
                                       0            6           5          13            0            25

So what does that say about the water the quality of water? And Is is okay that there is none nitrate in the water? Is that usual? Cuz both the drinking water has waaay more. When I checked the water real good, I saw very little life. But I saw at least life. The natural pond had waaaaaay more. But it isn't as dead as I thought. I also throwed in 2 buckets of water from the natural pond. The goal is to do this every time we visit.
Our goal for the pond is a nice looking water, with a lot of green. Birds, insects, some fish (the biggest dream is an nice edible fish), and were it is possible to jump in from time to time....

And I also add some pictures cuz I'm still not sure what to do with the leaves and the muck inside the pond. Healthy or not?
Ps: I think the pool is digged at the end of the sixties.

the pictures:
- the stick and smelly bubbles, the pole went in 150 cm deep from 1m from shore. It touched the leaves already after 10cm when entering water. A lot of leaves. Do they all decay into ground?
- there is often a white glow in the water as you can see in the pictures.
- here you can see how close/far off the pines are to the pond. On the other side is the very small creek

We are so happy for all the information you all are willing to share. Some contradicting, but that is good, now I can cherry pick ..

It is interesting to see how much information is needed for a clear view of the situation. I thought I was pretty clear, but with every post I think. Ah that is good to know toooo... So here are some more points to consider:
- the pine trees are not completely near the water. The closest ones are around 4 meters o the edge of the pond, with some deciduous trees in between.
- I saw in one of the replies that dead pine get sun bleached, So I guess that the trees that felt in the pond, where dead and standing before they fell in. But I can't say it with certainty.
- When i'm raking the leaves to one side, there are plenty pine needles between the leaves.
- the pond does sometimes smell bad. Not always!
I also read a post about the amount of sun. There is a piece of land with a pond closeby, deserted for over 30 years, with waaaay more shadow, but the annoying thing is, that one is (natural) healthy. We bought ours from a lady who wasn't been much there in the last 5 years. Only sometimes to trim trees and bushes. I think the pond was bad all that time.
- there is a pond nearby with people trying to take care of, but the only thing they are doing is taking invasive plants out, and has way to much nutrients in it. But they also have big carps in it. The healthy pond very small. (don't know if that mean something). At least I know now, fish is not the best option.
- So you have the farmfields, than a ditch working properly, over 20 meter off land before the pond starts with many different kind of trees in between (small forest like). Not sure if that is enough? For the chemicals to magically disappear  
- because the surroundings are very wet, there a lot of dragonflies and in the evening bats. Also a kingfisher, only not often on our piece of land. Hopefully soon too!
- I can't get the stream more upwards to get fresh water. The height difference is to big and there are other properties in between.
- fresh water from underground goes slowly, I will make some pictures of the flow from the overflow


The things i'm going to do after reading all your replies:
- I bought the book "building natural ponds" It will arrive on monday, looking forward to it!
- I'm going this weekend again for a short  trip, hopefully I can get the water tested, I will for sure share the details.
- I'm going to look closer for natural life in the pond, will make some pictures if I find any
- I will also be throwing some fresh buckets of water from nearby ponds. Thanks for the tip!
- We are going to make some banks as quick as possible. We can see it already full with beautiful water plants
- I'm looking into earation, just as solar panels. But our budget goes on the moment more to the area around it. (a shed, the bungalow more liveable, plants and bird friendly bushes, flowers etc.)
- reading up on biological filters. It looks fun because I can make something new haha
- After reading up, I truly want to believe that the toxins will be less in 2023. Last year we did nothing with the duckweed. But this year I will get as many out of the water, just to get more nutrients out of the water. Thanks for the tip!
- We already had the plan to grow some cattails. Does it matter if they are on the other side of the pond in comparison the fields to pick up on toxins? Otherwise we are going to make some changes in our plants
- Reading about Piet Oudolf, well my girlfriend is. Sharing the load of information is nice!
- Thank you Skandi Rogers. Very nice to say that of you. You made my girl very happy with that comment.

As I said, i'm going probably this weekend for a short trip. If any want a specific picture from something, let me know.
Thank you all very much! I'm very happy with all this information. I made a big list! Keep you all posted!

well Gueas what, we did had pictures of the pond from last year (with duckweed) and even one from last month (tripod).

To Nancy
Thank you very much for adding my question to more forums. Didn't know i could do that.
1: The sticks are from one off the pine tree's I took out.
2: The thing about the water what you see, are actually pollen. They fell a couple of times on the water last year to make it look dirty, but after a rain it was gone.
3: I'm afraid it is  anaerobic methane, cuz there aren't any living plant in it. Only ferns around it. And as far as some neighbours told me, this is for at least 5 years like this.  

And i'm taking you advice to keep the fish out of my pond this year. First some plant!

I forgot to mention that on the other side of the very small creek is very swampy, the old river was flowing there first. It is now placed further away. They sold this piece of land for the first time in the 60's (I think). It was in between the river and farmlands. But the land was to wet for big machines. So they dug out this and several other ponds and sold it off als nature reserve. I think thats also why the duckweeds are thriving, close to corn and grass fields.

To Anne
Thanks for the thread, There are a couple of things. I don't have electricity, at one point we are going to set up a small solar panel. But only for 1 car battery cuz we won't be using it much. For aeration, It seems so less for a (small big) pond  20 to 40 meters (and 1.6m deep). I have no experience so my feeling is worth nothing in this case.  So i will look further into this, and get myself a pump that can work on a solar panel!

About local government, the 2nd last owner was trying to dig out the pond, but got sued. This was 15 years ago. He tried later to get papers, but got refused, because of letting nature be naturae. I'm sorry, but i'm not going to ask someone. This time I'm taking my money with "don't wake up the sleeping dogs".  

Thank you both for answering. I have the feeling i'm getting closer to a clean pond

Dear Permies,

I'm new on this forum, so I can't find my way yet through all new and unknown English words for me. But I came to this website through a startpage-search. But that one wasn't specific enough for me to solve my "dead" pond. So here is my question, hopefully one of you can help me to take some (small) steps. But first the specifications.

- We bought a plot of land with pond for recreational use. So we go once a month, to escape city life. we bought it last year.
- the plot is in Europe, on the border between the Netherlands and Belgium.
- the pond is 20 Meter width en 40 meters long (21 by 43 yards) , its a rectangle.
- fresh water with a slow flow into the pond (through groundwater level or upstream force, unknown yet)
- there is a pipe from the pond to a stream. that works as a overflow.
- I once blocked it to see if the water was rising, it did. I didn't test it how high it would get. I don't want to damage the trees and surrounding plants when i'm away for a month.
- the trees around are deciduous trees on 3 sides and on 1 side pine trees. (there were 2 pine trees in the pond last year)
- there are a lot of leaves on the side bank in the water. I poked with a stick, you feel a resistance after 30 cm, (11 13/16 inch). But if i push harder I can push through till around 1.4 meter (1yrd 1.6ft) Then I feel real resistance. About the middle of the pond i can't say. But probably around 2 meters (2yd .5ft)
- It bubbles quit a lot of gas.
- there is a stream behind our property and pond, that is moving and at least 1 meter below our level of the surface of the pond.

As I said, I got 2 pine trees out of the pond, I also raking sometimes the leaves with an own build hand rake to one side. The plot is in a nature habitat, so I can't do much about it. They won't give permits that easily, But I heard from others around the area, they never check. So do what you want, but no heavy machines. That's why I handracke it by hand and rope. It will take me at least 5 years. At least it is relaxing meditative work for an 1hr a day haha.... My plan is to shorten in time the pond in length, cuz so many leaves are in the water.

So now the deadpart. It's dead. No fish, no frogs, don't see anything else. Last year summer it was completely covered in duckweed. For at least a good 4 months. at the end it attracted ducks, that was cool.  But there is a pond close-by, what has way more trees around it (no pine), with way more leaves in the water, but with 2 water lilies and small carp. It looks completely healthy (very jealous cuz it's pure nature no humans interfering)

Now my first real question is. I build a fishtrap and i'm planning on catching some of those fish and put them in my pond. Will they stay alive or is the pond killing them? Do I need to take some pre steps like adding oxygen plants? And how long do I need to wait? Will the pond become automatic "healthy" if I add fish and overtime racking the leaves to the side to build a new bank (already did some test, it is working). Or are there many steps to take? When I bought it, it was my dream to make a trout pond, but after searching online i put that idea in the closet haha. let's take it by year. And this year the battle will be with The duckweed that will probably arrive again around june. I want to be prepared for this year. If it is possible of course.

So far for the long story, hopefully I put as much information in it, to get the most precise answers as possible.
Thank you all for the read. And I'm looking forward to the answers an to find my way around this website. My dream is to go within 10 years to another country to buy a waaaaayyyy bigger plot of land and live from it.

Greets and thank you

PS: we have only one okay-isch picture. I don't make any, and my girlfriend think the pond is to ugly! So it is never on the picture hahahaha