Derek Thille

Douglas Alpenstock wrote:

Thekla McDaniels wrote:Does anyone have any input about box elders or manitoba maples?

Indeed, I do.

In my current locale, Manitoba Maples grow slow and dense when left to form big trees. A 30+" tree forms genuine hardwood, tight rings, heavy as hell, and wonderful to burn in a wood stove. I suppose our long winters and limited growing season are the reason.

They do punch out a lot of suckers from the root every year, and these are thin stuff. Not dense enough for tool handles or anything beyond kindling. So, not a great coppice candidate. But don't diss the big old stuff.

A town south of here taps the Manitoba maples in the spring and makes syrup.  They host a Sugaring Off Festival, but the timing isn't necessarily right to be able to demonstrate the happenings at the Cabane a Sucre.

Rick, I haven't checked regarding a review, but I'll need to add that to my list.  I really enjoyed how he laid out the history of copse management in the first part of the book.  It is quite informative.  In the longer term, I intend to try some of the stump culture to create an annual supply of Christmas trees for personal use.

So, while this is an older thread, trees take time, so this is ultimately a multi-year project.

As in many things, the answer is "it depends".

First, if you are starting with pasture, understand that the soil microbiome will be leaning toward bacteria rather than fungi.  Trees prefer a fungal dominated soil.  So, when we see above-ground succession, there is also below-ground succession happening.  So, if you are starting from pasture, if possible, I'd plant trees near an edge that has other trees.

I'd strongly consider a multi-species environment rather than a monoculture.  This can help reduce disease and pest pressure, while improving the overall health of the system.

In working with diversity, consider ensuring you have some nitrogen-fixers in the mix - this could include locusts, alders, or even some shrubs.

Diversity will give you a mix of growth rates and coppice behaviour.

Consider whether other uses can be of value to you - if you coppice for firewood of a particular size, what are your plans for the slash?  Are the twigs and smaller branches valuable for other uses?  If nothing else, they could be used for mulch.  Since you mentioned charcoal, perhaps you can turn some into artists' charcoal and have a higher value product (something I want to try).

If you have diversity of species, perhaps it will be easier to mix some better burning wood in the stove with poorer burners like Manitoba maple.

It could be worthwhile to visit a local nursery for ideas - what they sell may work reasonably well in your area, with nuance for soil and moisture variables on your land.

I can highly recommend Coppice Agroforestry by Mark Krawczyk.  It is also available through New Society Publishers, which prints and ships within Canada (as well as US).  If you are looking to start some from seed, consider Incredible Seeds from the Maritimes.  It's more effort, but more cost-effective to start more trees.

Grocery store delivery adds another step with the food delivery service in that it goes to the store, then someone there packs it and it gets delivered.

Two weeks ago I picked up a 1/4 grass fed Angus beef.  A farmer neighbour of our acreage (about 6 km away) raised the animal, and it was custom cut and wrapped at a country butcher (about 60 km from the farmer).  We also get a pig and several chickens from her, so most of our meat for the year is quite local.  We also get most of our eggs through her, although the farmer with the layers is closer to our property than hers.

Here's my first attempt.  I'm reasonably happy with how it turned out, but more importantly I learned some lessons.

Earlier this winter, while walking the dog, I saw some pruning work done on boulevard elm trees beneath a power line...seeing a branch in the range of 2" in diameter, I thought that could be a reasonable starting point for a spoon.  After getting home, I retrieved my pruning saw and the dog and I went back to cut off the branch at a bit over 4' long.  Then I needed to verify the safety of elm for such a use...the info I found notes that there have been medicinal uses of the inner bark (if I remember correctly) and some other parts, so I figured it should be safe.

We had a long weekend here, so I got at it.  I cut the branch (which has something of a curve) into roughly 1' lengths, leaving the bigger end a bit longer.  Using my froe, I split the branches.  They didn't split as nicely as hoped.  In my mind, the bigger piece may turn into an attempt at something like a ladle.  I made a couple rough cuts with the pruning saw to create something of a bowl end.  Next step was to use a chisel to take off some of the sides so there was less material removal with the carving tools (which I'd gotten as a gift after expressing an interest in trying this out).

Sitting on the floor with a small tarp to catch (most of) the shavings, I got at it.  I was surprised how quickly things moved along.  In the end, I'm sure I spent 2-3 hours on it.  When I'd had enough, I gave it an initial coat of walnut oil...it took that up pretty quickly, so I gave it some more.

I first used it with water and played with measuring spoons, so I think it's just over a teaspoon in the end and is far and away the largest teaspoon in the house.  Although it isn't symmetrical, I'm happy with how the bowl turned out overall.  I left the handle larger in part because I like the look of the darker heartwood with the paler sapwood.

A couple lessons learned:

I should spend more time on the rough blank, perhaps using my coping saw to take off more material.

The heartwood acts more fibrous than the sapwood, so I think it will rough up more with use.  Future projects should perhaps have the heartwood removed...or choose a different variety of tree to start with.

I quite enjoyed this project - while a bit taxing on my soft hands, I can see myself trying more things like this.

So, while it isn't a fabulous piece of art, I made it and am content with how it turned out, especially since I haven't done anything like whittling in decades.  I humbly submit it for this Badge Bit.

As a small town boy, this thread brings up some memories.

When I was in university, before I met She Who Must Be Obeyed, I was involved in church youth groups.  I attended a youth group event in a very small community.  I drove out early to attend Mass with the youth leader (who I was definitely attracted to and was probably the main reason I was there) before the day's activities.  That messed things up a bit since I was an extra body when everyone else already had their "spot" in the church.

Anyway, after the event, we went back to her place for supper and when I went to leave, the door knob on her rental was worn, so I couldn't get out without dismantling it.  It was good I was there as otherwise she would have had difficulty getting out the next morning to go to work.  Anyway, she mentioned that perhaps it was a sign I should stay the night.  I declined as I had some homework to finish for the next morning.  I also noted that if my car was there in the morning, someone would see it before I had a chance to leave and that would spark the round of news.  As she was a teacher at the Catholic school, that could have made her life pretty uncomfortable.

I grew up in a bigger town (about 1600 people), so it had many of the qualities described here, but was really too big to consider a village.  Recently, my daughter overheard a resident at the place she is doing a practicum mention the name of the town, so that launched a bit of a conversation.  The resident was moving out that day, so we can't get more confirmation, but based on the surname, I'm pretty sure I know who she is.  I've heard it mentioned that Saskatchewan's population used to be about 3 degrees of separation.

Roxanne Sterling-Astor wrote:YMBAP if... you see a willow tree you immediately think of making rooting hormones

Or you see it's a different colour than what you have so you want to take cuttings to plant...or grow a living structure.

Walking the dog, you pruning of boulevard trees under a power line and you spot a branch that looks to be a good size for getting a badge bit in carving a spoon, so you go home and get your pruning saw to glean the branch.

The branch just to the left of the saw is a bit over 2" in diameter and I cut a piece a bit over 4' long, so I should be able to get a number of blanks to work with.

Thanks Christopher - counties closest to us (call it 60 miles) are in the less than or equal to 40 range, but as you move west of the Red River valley it gets to the 20 species range, which our acreage is probably closer to.

Jay - we found a lonely one up in the Caldera...I forget what Paul had said about them, other than I believe he thought there weren't any or they were all gone.  Since Paul isn't very opinionated it is easy enough to lose parts of conversations.  Western larch is one of the species and I mistakenly set him off by asking if that was tamarack.  He was happy that I got his amelanchier reference though (saskatoon / june / service / shad).

I'm with Mike...the scale and colour differentiation makes it a challenge at best.  I'd also need a reference of the species counted...there are some that could create arguments over whether they are small trees or large shrubs as an example.  If I recall, we came across 4 species of evergreens at Wheaton Labs (Paul wasn't that excited we'd seen a juniper).

Catie George wrote:My dad is still in zone 3, but Ontario - he hasnt had any success at all with the modern U Sask sweet sour cherry bushes or, sadly, saskatoons, which i planted 2-3 times before giving up.  He has managed to grow grapes - i think i planted Valiant, and he gets an occasional large bumper harvest from them. I suspect if he pruned them, more would ripen! Balsor's hardy blackberry died (possibly due to where he planted it!). Haskaps have grown well for me in Zone 4 Ontario, and i suspect would also do well in Zone 3. Things tend to die as much from baking in drought and shallow soil over bedrock, as winter kill, though.

I think living in Zone 3 really teaches you to treasure fruit, even tart fruit. I still enjoy chewing raw rhubarb, currants straight from the bush, and prefer sour cherries to sweet cherries.

Still, i am enjoying my move to zone 6!

Edit : oh! And i really enjoyed our wild Canada plum on good years. Some years the fruit was really tart and dry, but on good years, it was fantastic and a punch of flavour.

If the U of S Romance series cherries haven't grown well, I don't think it can be a zone / temperature issue.  I'd wonder if it was perhaps the nature of the soil or something similar.  They are pretty tough.  

It may vary by variety, but haskaps are hardy to zone 2 generally.  They should do well for him, assuming all other conditions are suitable.

This year we got some local plums that I think are the Canada wild plums - seeds were planted in the fall...we'll see what comes of it.