Matthew Tebbit

Hi all,

Cade, sounds like you're one step ahead of me. I plan to visit Northern Spain soon(ish) but haven't got any firm plans as to when. I can't jump ship for quite a few years as I have a school aged daughter...although I might give living in one of the cities/towns a go for a year.

In terms of what I am looking for, primarily somewhere which will have a good growing season for self sustainability. From a growing perspective that's enough rain and sunlight (soil and landscape factor too, but I can narrow in on that later). From a living perspective, too much rain won't be fun and neither will very cold winters nor very hot summers. And a final factor will be cost, places falling in that goldilocks zone are likely to be pricier and so I might end up having to shift on some points.

I think climate change is something to definitely consider regardless of your opinions on it (I feel it's going to be impactful). Northern Spain looks to be forecast to get wetter, how far that extends from the coastal areas is something I will investigate. I haven't looked at forecasts too much but I imagine that temperatures will also rise so snow on the mountains will likely be less meaning storage/capture of rainfall will be more important.

In terms of ranges, what's a good amount of rainfall for say winter when you will be looking to capture and then equally a good amount in summer to supply natural watering (supplemented by stored water) balanced against sun/temperature to aid growing...and i am sure the answer is, depends on what you plan to grow 😉

Thanks for your responses so far, I plan to continue messing around with the historical data...there seems to be some gaps and I am unsure if that is because it's missing data or no data was collected, to answer that I will need to access the raw online data myself.

Matt

So here's the background, I would like to make a move to somewhere in the future (next 10 years) to be able to buy some land. I used to live in Peru (in the city) but the dynamics of the country, the likely climate changes let alone the speculation that drives up prices on land make me lean away from going back there to give it a go. I currently live in the UK but again land prices here are crazy, plus the climate is not the best. Given I speak Spanish and that various areas of Spain (and Portugal to be fair) look like they will weather climate change relatively well, I am currently doing my research there (there's an argument this should fall in the Iberia forum I know).

Due to the timescales, this is currently a desktop exercise . So here's the crux of the question, what makes a perfect (good) climate for growing/living in. I have downloaded Spain's climate records from the 1940s through to 2012 (I will endeavour to access the rest but someone had already compiled the first dataset so I am starting off with what I have).

How much precipitation?
       Maximum threshold in the wet months to avoid flooding?
       How many days rain per month is good? 50%, 60% as a good distribution.
       How many heavy rain days? I am qualifying heavy rain as 20mm or more, probably want to avoid areas which are prone to this.  
       Minimum threshold in the dry months to avoid drought.
Temperature range?
      I am thinking from my personal preference that 10-12 degree minimum would be manageable given that higher temperatures would likely affect precipitation.
      Average temperatures per month? Given likely warming, an area which sees mid to high 20s (centigrade) sounds okay.
Amount of sunshine/hours of daylight? -
       Sunshine - I imagine that this would need to be considered as a % of daylight hours, during the growing season 50-60% of daylight hours in sun?
       Daylight hours - I imagine this won't be hugely variable due to the variance in locations, but an 10-14 hour range of daylight sounds like a good target

I am thinking to try and assign a score to each area and then see how each area compares as well as how much it varies per year. Are there any other areas you think should be considered (from a purely climatic perspective)?

Thanks for putting up with my musings and also for any suggestions you can bring.

Matt.

The fertility could be another issue then, the location where they're planted had been a pond which I filled with lots of compost, both homemade and store bought.

I get about a bit 😀 I am currently in the UK, sunny and dry colchester. I have a small patch of land in the Highlands of Peru that is currently on hiatus other than asking family out there to tend to it.

My pruning may have been the issue then, this year I will prune half and leave half and see which does better. My raspberries are sat in full sun and although the soil holds water fairly well and it's been a pretty wet year, maybe a different location and more watering would suit them better.

Thanks for your suggestions.

Can anyone suggest what I am doing wrong. I have a raspberry patch, it's been in place for the last 3 years and the plants do well as in they grow full and tall, but their production is terrible. I am 90% sure I have a summer fruiting variety as I cut them back earlier this year and the new growth has produced fruit. The plants are quite densely packed (about 30 to 40cm between each one) so maybe they're focusing on growing upwards to out compete each other which means they put less energy into fruiting?

Any assistance would be much appreciated, if I can't work it out by the end of the next year they're gonna get the chop.

Tarwi is a lupin with large seed pods. You can get it to eat in Latin American shops (I have found it in London sold as chocho). I haven't tried growing the seeds although may see if I can get it to grow. It's pretty good to eat, in Peru they cook a paste with a salty soft cheese. Lupins are unfortunately toxic so getting the seeds edible is a job and a half...in the Andes they place them in running water for a week, alternatively you soak it and boil it repeatedly until the scum stops appearing, it's not very practical to do.

Unfortunately not, I didn't know what one was until I googled. Fog isn't present where the land is, I imagine the lowest tech solution would be piles of rocks/rock walls to collect dew. I'm aiming to get the fence in place next weekend and will try and will try and build up the rock wall at its base.

Hi Melissa, sounds very similar, down to the cultural challenges around grazing animals.

I have been doing some research on weather data from a weather station close to the land and think I may have hit on a solution. Even during the months where precipitation is low, humdity remains quite high. It typically stays at around 70-80% throughout the year with the driest months having humidity at 58% at the lowest, some years humidity has remained in the 70s and 80s throughout the dry season. What are some easy, low-tech solutions to collect moisture from the air that can be left in place to passively improve the land? Would fog nets work, on the coast nets are common to collect the sea fog.

Thanks for all the advice, I think it will be a long haul, but sure I will make progress.

Not sure if it warrants a separate thread, thinking about the trees on the land, although they are both hardy species and their shade and foliage will be of benefit, I worry they may restrict other plants in the long run.

Eucalyptus are horrible in my opinion. They have been brought in because they are great at what they do, growing tall and straight in poor conditions, but from what I have seen they outcompete everything and in the plantations I have seen, nothing else grows.

Pepper trees (Schinus Molle, think most people would know them as Californian Pepper Trees) are native and I like them a lot, however I have read that they suppress other plants growing around them.

Does anyone have any knowledge about how these plants interact with others?

Thanks for the advice, it's hard to tell what the natural environment was like as humans have substantially altered it. The plants that remain are both acclimated to the dry conditions and unpleasant for the grazing animals, either prickly or poisonous.

The trees are all found in the gully at one end, the land is in a valley so i believe all the water is chanelling down there. Once it's fenced off I will try and establish some more plants around the trees from plants that are surviving in the area.

I have already taken some of the actions to a degree, I have created rows of rocks about 15 to 20cm high, not much growth around them but if I move them there is insect life living there and it clearly is damper. I will try and add more rocks to those to act as windbreaks. I have also dug a mini 'pond' to try and catch/accumulate rain, it's dry but is clearly greener than everywhere else...barring the gully.

Thanks for the advice.