Gordon Blair

That's quite a story, Cécile! Lends anecdotal credence to the idea that sunchokes can provide serious human-available calories without breaking up the inulin into sugar first.

I have tried to acclimate to them, but perhaps it would need to be done more consistently and built up gradually.

Yeah, for me, that's the big question here. I understand that this is what cows do? There is also evidence that inulin-consuming bacteria release short-chain fatty acids that are digested by the human for energy. So there are two potential means to extract calories from indigestible inulin. Maybe that process is turbocharged for Paul.

I love onions and have eaten an almost inordinate amount of them for many years. They are considered relatively high in inulin, but this has not conferred Paul's superpowers upon me.

Les Frijo wrote:

Christopher Weeks wrote:
If bacteria inside your body do the digesting for you is that still you digesting or is it more like farming the bacteria and consuming them without having to slaughter and store the pig so to speak?

Hey Paul

I watch David's channel sometimes, but his situation isn't always applicable to mine, as I am growing in Scotland. No shortage of frost here...

It's not sufficient to make even moderate amounts tolerable for me and my wife. We do have to process them for digestibility.

From what I've read, humans can't digest inulin, period. Would building up a tolerance just mean happier and more gastric bugs, but not calories for the human..?

paul wheaton wrote:At this moment, I think there are two big things to get past the sunchoke comedy:


      - harvest after a hard frost


      - build your gut biome to digest this new thing


That's it.  

David the good (one of the staff here at permies.com) just posted  a video bashing sunchokes

Note that david is in alabama.  Warmer climate.  Does he ever get a hard frost?  I also wonder if he goes easy on getting started each year?  

I get the impression Paul is super keen on folks growing sunchokes as a main survival crop. I've found that I can eat a limited amount without side effects only IF I lacto-ferment it first.

So this entails a workstep that crops like potatoes don't have to go through. If I'm treating sunchokes as a main calorie-source, the fermentation would have to be done in big batches. The process can go wrong (mould) and I would expect it results in a rather high-sodium vegetable to consume as a main calorie source?

And could I really get serious calories (without side effects) eating it as a potato substitute? The inulin conversion would never be close to 100% (I may be wrong about this?) and while some people may adapt to tolerate inulin more with exposure, it's the gastro-bugs that reap most of the calories, right? Maybe some of it is released in a human-digestible form, but it can't compare with eating potatoes and directly getting the starch, I would think..?

If I have a good source of acid (lemon juice is generally said to be ideal) to cook the sunchokes in, that can help, but in a survival situation, I would need to come up with a LOT of it if sunchokes are my main staple?

I'm not here to blow raspberries at the concept; I like growing them and the taste of them! I would love for this to work out somehow!

Anne Miller wrote:By the way, acting as a career choice is going away ...



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tilly_Norwood

Kill it with digital fire...

This thing can only be viable because the mainstream alternative has become THAT generic and vapid.

So vibrant and elegant!

Anne Miller wrote:Have you ever wondered what it is like being a raven or crow?

https://theconversation.com/whats-it-like-being-a-raven-or-a-crow-257171?utm_source=firefox-newtab-en-us

There was a very philosophical movie all about this, starring Brandon Lee...

The present economy coasts on finite & undervalued fossil-fuel inputs, like someone whose 'wealth' depends on a line of credit. Industrialised ag is an efficient calorie-producer--while it lasts.

I don't have a crystal ball, but we might see a time where there are fewer-still lucrative opportunities for the global majority to ride that hydrocarbon-powered gravy train. The cheap calories may dry up along with the oil. It might become important once more to be able to grow without chemical assistance. It may no longer come down to a calculation like: "Why garden when I can earn 20,000 calories in an hour?" because that possibility will only be for a few at the top of the pyramid.

Who knows? But I think this is one of many plausible arguments for permaculture. I watch Nate Hagens on YouTube sometimes--quite the rabbithole--he brings on all sorts of scientists and interesting people. He's convinced we're facing a 'great simplification' of society once there are no longer the energy resources to support extreme social complexity. He says the transition to this will be rough or smooth to the degree we're prepared. Again, I'm not committed to a belief that this is how things will pan out... Maybe someone will come up with abundant, near-free fusion energy and solve some of those problems...

Annie Hope wrote:This really interests me as an alternative to plastic.  Would it be possible to make it out of any other type of paper or make cloth from second hand sheets?

I've seen a couple of YouTube videos about DIY methods of making ordinary sheets incredibly waterproof, like a tarp.

Christopher Weeks wrote:I just ordered a 20-meter roll of Hanji paper for experimentation. (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01EIA90PI)

I wonder what I should oil it with. It seems like the oil can help with water-shedding and transparency...but does the kind of oil matter? Are there other attributes the oil controls?

Great! I hope you can get around to it and report back!  :-)