Sam Shade

Kevin Feinstein II wrote:

Sam Shade wrote:

Mark Reed wrote:

Sam Shade wrote:The complexity and engineering involved in aquaponics has thus far kept me at bay, but I have a couple set ups that keep bring me back to the concept.

First, I have about a half acre pond that is home to the usual assortment of freshwater fish, turtles and algae. My dad is nuts for building water features and so he built a sort of volcano shaped fountain/ pond along side it, using a pump to push water about 8 feet up and then cascade  down into a series of large basins (each of which probably hold about 800 gallons) before streaming back into the pond.

Thus I have some quasi aquaponics infrastructure already in place. I already grow water lotus in the lower basin but I would really like to add some fish to the upper basin. I get a few fish out of the big pond with a fishing rod,  but I can't shake the appeal of netting dinner out of the mini pond.

The problem is from everything I've read, tilapia is the most efficient fish to raise in a set up like this but I'm in zone 7b, which makes tilapia raising an annual prospect. So I'm on the hunt for an efficient variety that can overwinter in 7b.

The second tempting use  of aquaponics has been referenced several times in this thread - since I'm going to be using 200+ gallons of water as thermal mass when I put in my greenhouse,  why not get some dual use out of it? I intend to cultivate some water hyacinth if I can keep the greenhouse temperature up,  but it sounds be great to utilize more of the water than just the surface area of the openings of my 55 gallon barrels.

Sounds to me like you have a pretty sweet setup there already. A series of 800-gallon basins with moving water in a couple of zones warmer than mine. All kinds of things should be possible with that.

I was thinking of bluegill in the upper basin for cold hardiness and low maintenance (and because they are readily available in the pond), but the yields seem like they would be pretty low relative to tilapia.  But tilapia would require a lot more management.

What would you in my situation?

Tilapia grow crazy fast. You can easily treat them like an annual fish. Get the started as early as your climate and you ability to warm up the water will allow in the spring and by fall you they will be full sized and harvestable. They are quite amazing like that and far more productive than bluegill or similar cool water fish. However, what I am interested in are growing minnows (there are many types, maybe eaten like sardines?) and if not food for the chickens.

I want to avoid having to buy fingerlings every year.  If I could overwinter some breeding stock in my basement or a greenhouse,  tilapia would be more appealing.

What makes you interested in minnows? Ease of raising?

Conventional college routes haven't made sense for most of us for quite some time. But there's still the community college to cheap state school route and that can make financial sense. The degree makes it easier to find jobs and the fixed costs of living make jobs tough to do without.

For me property taxes and utilities are about $1000 a month combined. Without my employer, health cost sharing plans would probably start at around $500 a month for my family. Miscellaneous capital repairs and other costs would average about $500 a month. So even assuming no mortgage, no cars and no groceries, there's $24k that needs to come in annually.

A decade ago I started looking into real estate investing as a way to get that number without depending on a job.  I've gotten about halfway there since.

But my philosophy about work has also changed. There are still jobs that are worth doing and need to  be done. And I think the possible crunch coming in the white collar sector isn't just a signal to head back to the land. There are other layers of infrastructure that have hollowed out as everyone and their mother have signed up for air-conditioned desk jobs. For example, I work in law enforcement and we never have enough applicants to fill openings. I used to be a teacher in a rural school district and they had the same problem. Likewise bus drivers, truck drivers, retail management, short order chefs, nannies, janitors, landscapers... The trades have more barriers to entry but they are hurting for people too.

Mark Reed wrote:

I was thinking of bluegill in the upper basin for cold hardiness and low maintenance (and because they are readily available in the pond), but the yields seem like they would be pretty low relative to tilapia.  But tilapia would require a lot more management.

What would you in my situation?

I'm not sure what your goal is, mine would be largely aesthetic, just to create and enjoy a bit of a natural environment. I'm also very interested in food production but mostly as a moderate supplement to our meals and mostly seasonally. Although in a set up the size of yours and in your climate much more might be possible. A restriction there is the topography of your pools. If they are close together with the eight-foot fall in steep sections rather than in a gentle stream or shallow pool it wouldn't be as easy to grow the necessary plants to keep it all clean and you might need some kind of artificial filter.

That said, I would go with the bluegill for sure. Also, probably striped bass maybe of the hybrid type, crappie and catfish. Lots of other things might also work like crawfish, freshwater shrimp and for sure freshwater clams. Things like frogs might and water snakes might move in on their own. I definitely would not screw with tilapia or anything else that is picky about warm water. Just adds an unnecessary unnatural aspect and as a rule I think the colder the water it came from the better any fish tastes. O' I forgot about carp. They are nasty fish that taste awful, but I wonder if that is mostly because of where they live. In a nice clean environment that might not be true. They grow fast and they have lots of fish oil which is supposed to be good for up. I would definitely experiment with carp and if it worked out, I'd call it hillbilly salmon.  

For plants you have to have lots of them to clean the water and maybe to eat. Mint for sure, it makes masses of filtering roots. Hornwort grows super-fast, cleans the water and can be harvested for fertilizer in the garden. Waterlilies of course because they are pretty. Lotus for sure, pretty and I've heard you can eat them. Edge plants too, like cattails and cannas. I might experiment with things like rice too.

There isn't anything complicated about playing with water, it doesn't require engineering or schematics at all unless a person wants to make it so. Only problem in a small scale set up such as we are talking the water has to be in circulation and the only way I know to do that is with electricity. The video of the fellow with the tubs shows things can thrive without pumps, but it looked like he was into raising tropical fish. I think that would be fun but, in my climate, they would freeze solid unless inside a greenhouse or something and that adds a whole bunch of engineering and schematics and expense.  

Thanks so much for taking the time.

I can confirm that lotus loves this kind of set-up. I started four in the house in the spring and put them in this summer and my goodness, they took the whole bottom basin over. No blooms this year but I look forward to harvesting some tubers later on - they have an unusual flavor somewhere in between water chestnut and ginger.

I love the mint suggestion as well. Mint sauce + goat meat is one of my very favorite combinations.

Bluegill definitely sounds like the way to go, even with the lower yield. They are supremely low maintenance.

My daughter is also interested in raising and selling koi if the bluegill don't pan out.

Police officer. Love the flexibility of working evenings so I can have the mornings to work on the property. Also enjoy being able to get out and around the city instead of being cooped up indoors all day.

Eventually when the pension kicks in I hope to spend more time around the property (and hopefully have lots of grandkids by then).

Mark Reed wrote:

Sam Shade wrote:The complexity and engineering involved in aquaponics has thus far kept me at bay, but I have a couple set ups that keep bring me back to the concept.

First, I have about a half acre pond that is home to the usual assortment of freshwater fish, turtles and algae. My dad is nuts for building water features and so he built a sort of volcano shaped fountain/ pond along side it, using a pump to push water about 8 feet up and then cascade  down into a series of large basins (each of which probably hold about 800 gallons) before streaming back into the pond.

Thus I have some quasi aquaponics infrastructure already in place. I already grow water lotus in the lower basin but I would really like to add some fish to the upper basin. I get a few fish out of the big pond with a fishing rod,  but I can't shake the appeal of netting dinner out of the mini pond.

The problem is from everything I've read, tilapia is the most efficient fish to raise in a set up like this but I'm in zone 7b, which makes tilapia raising an annual prospect. So I'm on the hunt for an efficient variety that can overwinter in 7b.

The second tempting use  of aquaponics has been referenced several times in this thread - since I'm going to be using 200+ gallons of water as thermal mass when I put in my greenhouse,  why not get some dual use out of it? I intend to cultivate some water hyacinth if I can keep the greenhouse temperature up,  but it sounds be great to utilize more of the water than just the surface area of the openings of my 55 gallon barrels.

Sounds to me like you have a pretty sweet setup there already. A series of 800-gallon basins with moving water in a couple of zones warmer than mine. All kinds of things should be possible with that.

I was thinking of bluegill in the upper basin for cold hardiness and low maintenance (and because they are readily available in the pond), but the yields seem like they would be pretty low relative to tilapia.  But tilapia would require a lot more management.

What would you in my situation?

The complexity and engineering involved in aquaponics has thus far kept me at bay, but I have a couple set ups that keep bring me back to the concept.

First, I have about a half acre pond that is home to the usual assortment of freshwater fish, turtles and algae. My dad is nuts for building water features and so he built a sort of volcano shaped fountain/ pond along side it, using a pump to push water about 8 feet up and then cascade  down into a series of large basins (each of which probably hold about 800 gallons) before streaming back into the pond.

Thus I have some quasi aquaponics infrastructure already in place. I already grow water lotus in the lower basin but I would really like to add some fish to the upper basin. I get a few fish out of the big pond with a fishing rod,  but I can't shake the appeal of netting dinner out of the mini pond.

The problem is from everything I've read, tilapia is the most efficient fish to raise in a set up like this but I'm in zone 7b, which makes tilapia raising an annual prospect. So I'm on the hunt for an efficient variety that can overwinter in 7b.

The second tempting use  of aquaponics has been referenced several times in this thread - since I'm going to be using 200+ gallons of water as thermal mass when I put in my greenhouse,  why not get some dual use out of it? I intend to cultivate some water hyacinth if I can keep the greenhouse temperature up,  but it sounds be great to utilize more of the water than just the surface area of the openings of my 55 gallon barrels.

Bought a used limo to cart all my kids around.

Sunny Troglin wrote:This is an old thread. Is there anyone there that still has any edible air potatoes they would part with. $ s or trade.

Hope to have some next fall.  Could spare one or two now to trade,  but they aren't the biggest specimens.  

I would be tempted to use the money as start up funding for a farm school.

A private K-12 that integrates academics with gardening,  animal husbandry, cottage industry and all that those endeavors entail.

Raise up a generation of multi-talented and grounded young people.

Daniel Sillito wrote:happy to help! I have a google doc with all my favourite species for the future homestead and I knew immediately which species you meant, hence the quick reply

Can you share the rest of your favorites?