Dareios Alexandre

Thanks for the suggestions but I'm looking for a warmer climate.

Rico Loma wrote:I beg to differ on one thing, land prices and home costs are not exorbitant in ALL the EU.  How much traveling have you done in Romania, Bulgaria, Portugal?  You won't be living with an ocean view, but homes with some land for gardening can still be found for under 100k if you are willing to toil over restoration and make a few compromises while the project is ongoing.  My 2 centimes

Hey Nkolaj, wow, that's super interesting! So how long have you been living in Senegal for? What's the climate like there, are there any mountainous areas that have a cooler climate? Is it easy to buy land as a foreigner? What about visa situation and costs?

Nikolaj Vinicoff wrote:I have some personal experience which may be useful, I also have a video to go along with it which may give you some inspiration. I've been living in southern Spain since 2014, before that I was living in the Dominican Republic while working as a dive instructor - best time of my life! After some years in Spain, I too felt overwhelmed with all the restrictions and regulations the government forces upon its citizens, and this has just gotten worse over time. Anyhow, I ended up buying a car and packing it to the brim with my belongings to drive southbound toward the tropics of West Africa. Senegal is one of the more stable countries, politically speaking, of west Africa, and people are very friendly and hospitable. I ended up buying a couple of plots of land there which I am now developing, growing those very fruits you long to grow, and the earth is a pleasure to work with (sandy loam is more more soft to dig through than Spanish calcium-rocky soils, both for plant roots as well as for human fingers).. Had I the option to go back today and ponder some more about where I would choose other than Senegal, I might also look into tropical countries with 0% Tax scemes, of which there are quite a selection out there.

I hope this helps. Let me know if I can share anything else.

Looking for some ideas here. I grew up in Canada and have been living in Greece with my family for the past 3.5 years. Our motivation to leave Canada was to have more freedom, better climate and cheaper cost of living, and work towards building a self sufficient homestead. After 3.5 yrs here it's clear that Greece, and probably anywhere in the EU is not a good place to be with the current political situation and the fact that the EU is just as regulated and expensive, maybe even more than Canada. We are very motivated now to move towards maximum self sufficiency, off grid homesteading as soon as possible. We've mostly been looking at property for sale in Greece so far, but now  I'm pondering other options of places to move to, including overseas. The tropics have also appealed to me more, somewhere at high elevation with a mild balanced climate year round. The other consideration is cost of buying property. I would be willing to stay in EU if prices were not so high, but seems like anywhere in the Mediterranean close to the sea is just out of our budget. We are prioritizing year round growing season and for me even Greek winters are too cold, I'm very much into the 15-25 C  year round thing. We want to grow bananas, papayas, avocados, as much fruit as possible basically, and live in a country with less bureaucracy and tension.  Ecuador seems like a good option, and maybe Colombia/Peru, but I'm curious to hear if anyone here has any other ideas or other things I need to consider with such a large move and to a new growing climate.

Hey Thomas, that sounds amazing!
Are you still there and still looking to create community in that area?

Thomas Haschen wrote:
I am 53. My wife is 44.  We have a 5 year old daughter. We sold everything and moved to Ecuador 4.5 years ago.  We bought land and built house in the Andes. It was just a little too cool for us. And couldn't grow as much as we would like. We decided to sell. And move down in elevation. Buying land and house in Ecuador. 4500ft 1371M.  
Temps 70-80F 21-26C everyday. Year around growing most anything. Property only has about 5 acres. But more land is for sale nearby. Currently has many fruit trees. Oranges several types of Lemons bananas etc.  

We were thinking it would be good to do this with someone else. Let someone else live this dream with us  Trying to be as self sufficient as possible. Seems many are interested, but no idea how to start the journey.  Two heads might be better than one so to speak. Rent free. Just contribute to Homestead.  

Would anyone be interested in Homesteading with us in Ecuador?  House is huge. It has a suite built for person to stay in while main house was being built. Bedroom kitchen bathroom living area. Seperate entrance. Perfect for single person. Couple. Or small Family.


Are thoughts on canidates. First and foremost we must get along, be friends, and work as one. We would like them to bring something to the table. Like carpenter, mason, animal husbandry, horticulture, aquaculture, anything they would specialize in. Ask any questions.

My family and I are selling a renovated traditional stone house on a 1712 m2 plot that we have been transitioning from rocky bare land into a food forest. Here are the details:

The house is 194m2 with open floor plan, front courtyard, 3 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, small workshop.

The land is laid out on 3 main terraces. There is a huge vegetable garden and several fruit trees, both established and newly planted, including avocados, apples, bananas, lemon, orange, loquat, apricot, walnut  and tons of figs and mulberries. 10 grapevines, raspberries, herbs everywhere.  On the top terrace, there is a 40m² swimming pool which is surrounded by large mature oak trees and path up to a tree house equipped with electricity. There are 2 wells and rainwater harvesting providing irrigation water during the summer, backup water storage tank, septic...

The property offers privacy, excellent outdoor spaces and amazing views. The property also has 206m² remaining building rights. Located in the small hamlet of Monopari, 12 km south of the city of Rethymnon, at 380m elevation.

Our asking price is 295,000 euros.

I'm looking at property for sale in th south fo Spain and seeing some opportunities to buy commercial greenhouse operations for sale. Of course these are not sustainable with all the microplastics and everything but if they're already there anyway would it make sense to invest in something like this and plant food forests in the greenhouses?

Here's an example of what I'm looking at: https://www.idealista.com/en/inmueble/109364866/

Hi Cristo,
Apologies for the late reply. Thank you, I appreciate all your ideas and will take them into consideration. Things are changing every day here it seems and now my family and I are actually looking into other countries outside of Greece, like the south of Spain, where there are more opportunitis to buy income producing fruit farms.

Cristobal Cristo wrote:If you don't plan on having animals them 1 ha should be sufficient Please remember that animal manure is your main soil improvement material in such climate.
Visually I like the orange orchard and just read that it also has some olives. If I had this many oranges, I would get pigs. Nothing would be wasted. How busy is this narrow road? One car per hour or per minute? I understand it's located at the higher part of the property.
I have not noticed high voltage power lines. If the lines that are there are just feeder lines (around 15 kV or even twice more) I would  not care as long as they do not transect the land in the middle. The water canal means there is water. The floodzone looks greener than anything around, so maybe you could get two milk goats at some point even if you don't plan now. It would be also good for chicken pen (movable when flooding). Probably the best spot for vegetables, because there would be more moisture there all year long and more humid air from canal water.

From two houses the more expensive wins. The cheaper one is just too ugly for me, but looks that it's located in some valley. The more expensive is on the hill(s). It is off grid, but does not say if it has sufficient water. It looks good and quality and the views are stunning, however the orange land looks most idyllic, pastoral and peaceful. Everything is ready, so - much less adventure (at higher price) and less choices to make. Being on the mainland, one can just take a car and get anywhere within Euro-Asia. The 330k house looks like it would have the poorest soil, being on the hill in chaparral like biome. It also has a lot of olives.

If I had to choose I would pick oranges as I love designing and building and I like having animals and  plenty of water. I would have shade of many trees and a producing orchard.

If you don't want to build then for two times as much money you have a ready package. I know it's personal but also a lot depends on your age. If you start late in life and from scratch you may not have enough energy to develop all you need the way you want.

Seems like a combination of as many different water sources as possible would be ideal. I imagine that for myself and my family we don't want to have animals so our land size requirement would be smaller. We are still considering the citrus orchard but not as excited about it as I was...the truth is Valencia oranges are not a profitable crop here and the flooding history as well as proximity to road and power lines is not ideal for me.
I will share it here anyway though so you can check it out and tell me what you think: https://www.elizabethestateagency.com/en/akinita/landplotDetails.php?id=156 and coordinates:
35.47363726537598,23.83009672164917

Just in the last couple days, due to high prices and lack of interesting properties for sale we've been exploring options in other parts of Greece and are looking at 2 in the southern Peloponnese.

These are houses with land and one is already fully off grid! I'd be curious to hear what you and anyone else has to say about these!

https://www.messiniaproperties.com/estate_property/a-unique-countryside-off-grid-bungalow-with-stunning-views/
and corrdinates: 36°58'16.7"N 21°53'57.9"E

https://www.spitogatos.gr/en/property/1118490265


 

Cristobal Cristo wrote:I think rain harvesting is feaseable if you have no other choices - no or bad well water, no streams/ponds, desert climate with low precipitation or restrective well drilling regulations. I would consider a property without a well only if I knew that the area has good water, sufficient amount and not too deep (the deeper the well the more expensive and usually lower yield).
If well is avalable try to look for a minimum 50 l/minute yield. The more the better. In the time of extreme drought, lower yielding wells may simply stop yielding anything.

Land size needed depends on soil/climate combination. For orchard, vegetables and a few animals 2 hectares is sufficient assuming that land is fertile enough to produce sufficient amount of vegetation for the grazers. If you plan on having more sheep/goats - the more terrain the better. It's better to have a smaller plot with excellent water, soil and microclimate than ten times bigger with rocks and aridity.

Water and soil are your main objectives, because they are bulky ingredients. Everything else can be relatively easily adjusted, but if you start with low quality soil and low water it may result in major frustration. I have tons of water and deep soils and I struggle to produce any vegetables, but at the same time have more and more fruits and quite a lot of sheep.

Are you still considering the citrus orchard?
Maybe if you share a list of your land finds it will be easier to help you.

Thanks Jon, sounds like it's definitely doable!

John C Daley wrote:I have done research on the area,
- Mediterranean climate with mild, rainy winters and hot, dry summers.
- Mountainous inland areas are cooler and receive more rain than the coastal region.
- Average Annual Rainfall: Rethymno receives approximately 574 mm (22.6 inches)
of precipitation annually, with the majority falling between October and April.
RAINFALL COLLECTION PROCESS
With 574mm of rain a year, you need 34 sq M of roof to collect 20,000L of water.
[ 20,000 / 574 = 34 ]
Somebody who has water supplied with a meter can tell us how much a garden uses, I dont know.
But in Bendigo I use about40,000L for myself. per annum. Average family in Victoria uses about 175,000L of water annually.
From https://agriculture.vic.gov.au/farm-management/drought-support/tools-and-calculators/farm-water-calculator/garden-use
they list the volumes of water used for garden etc for different rainfall areas.
I notice homes for sale on Crete, promote the fact they have water storage tanks installed.
Here is a Greek company that makes tanks, listing size and cost.
https://plastikon.gr/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/PLASTIKON-BROCHURE.pdf

Thanks Jon. Yes we very much want to be off grid, that's a priority for us. I would love to sell at the farm gate, not sure how well it would work here, it's not really a thing here in Greece, but worth a try. Yeah the place we're at now has terrible soil, I'm having trouble growing much of anything here, so definitely want to prioritize good soil for the next place!

John C Daley wrote:I think all the opinions are worth consideration.
I would add;
- Do you want to sell at the farm gate?
- A flood zone may have better quality soul, but you dont want a structure swept away
- water is always #1, but if you can capture rainfall it will be easier.
- Power can come from solar panels etc and may be better value than posts and wires.
- Area you require may create different needs.
- slopes can be used to you advantage, moving water, flood protection.
- Soil quality is very important, its hard to improve from rubbish soil.