Juan Roble

Ned Harr wrote:
Two people can use the same gardening app but if person A does it because he always uses apps for everything and it would never have occurred to him not to, while person B does it because she stopped and thought about her options first and decided using the app still would be a valid expression of her permaculturalist values while fulfilling her goals, then person B is using technology in a permaculturalist way, while (I would argue) person A is not.

Masterful — and I do not mean that mockingly, but with genuine respect.

I completely agree. We are free to use technology; it can even be a good thing, and not something to be rejected simply for the sake of preserving the old.

But its use must be conscious.

Thank you.

Hi @ll,

This may be a little controversial, and I only want to share an opinion, but I think everyone’s choices are valid: from those who do not want to use any technology at all, to those who watch series on a tablet after storing solar energy during the day. The problem is not the technology, nor the option each person chooses, but the way of life each of us decides to lead. If there is any space for freedom, it is ours — a space where I believe many of us have chosen ways of living that are very different from what society normally hands us by default.

In my case, I am an electronics engineer, and one part of permaculture leads me to use technology in favour of nature: to make work easier and to make this world a little better. That does not mean technology at any cost. Quite the opposite: it means using technology responsibly. For example, the son of a friend once asked her: “Mum, do you know how much water AI consumes just to tell you what plant is in a photo?”

Yes, that is one way of looking at it. Another way is to think that it is better to use AI to identify plants, detect risks, or explore useful ideas than to use it for any number of pointless things it is often used for. Besides, we are already using the internet — right now, by reading this message — and that also consumes energy. Anyway, as I said, this is a controversial subject, so I respect the reasoning behind everyone’s point of view.

In the project I am working on, technology is part of permaculture. I want to monitor the temperature, humidity, activity, and weight of beehives. I want to build automated machines that do mulching using only solar energy. I want to manage irrigation with a network of valves and IoT sensors over a LoRa network, all powered by small panels. At least I try to see technology as a support tool and to use natural energy sources. The real issue is coherence. If we use a solar panel, how was it manufactured? Does any industrial process fully respect the environment? We can certainly do without all technology. No doubt about that. But when we need to have a CT scan because of a lump somewhere in the body, we will be grateful that someone created, manufactured, and uses that machine that can help save lives.

I will leave it there, because this is a huge debate starting from the small question of which app or apps we can use in our field. For me, all of them can be useful — at least if we approach them as tools to make daily life easier, without letting them create real dependency in order to get things done.

I use my phone to identify plants and insects, and even to study what type of soil I have based on the plants I find on a given piece of land. I also use it to check legal regulations so I can do things properly, and sometimes even to research what layers of trees I could plant on a slope to create a barrier against erosion in the specific area where I am working.

Everything is useful when it helps. Useless when it only consumes time.

Wow! Making an open fire outdoors is practically banned throughout my whole country. They only allow approved barbecues, and in the area where I am, to have a barbecue it has to be enclosed within four walls. The risk of forest fires here is very high.

I remember when we were kids, we used to go camping and make campfires in the evenings. We always surrounded them with stones, like in the drawing.

These things make me think about going to visit other places, meeting other people who live close to nature, and being able to share the authentic things that still remain in each part of the world.

Hi all,

I use Ubuntu Linux on an old PC, and I can work with all the online software from Google and Microsoft.

This computer is around 15 years old, and I hope to keep using it for at least another 5 years.

Are you sure you really need Windows, Apple, or Chrome OS?

Try it, and let go of the fear.

Again and again, I show up with a broken heart. Nothing saves me, not even experience.

Again and again, I take the risk, because there is no greater loss than never having dared to do it.

I carry a pocketful of excuses, placed there at some point by each person: it’s not my time, I want to but I don’t dare, I can’t step in because I carry wounds, maybe in the future... Excuses I never fully understand, but I respect.

Again and again, I open my heart once more, because I cannot live without loving, because life calls me to live intensely.

Again and again, I discover a spark, and while I look at it, I become happy again.

I don’t expect anyone to understand me. I simply realise that, again and again, I try to be my authentic self — and perhaps I am finally managing to do that now.

Oops, I’ve just noticed that your post is quite old.

Are you still on the path you started back then? Are you still living this way and continuing with the project?

Hi @ll,

How beautiful it is to find people like you!!! Congratulations. You have not only created a different way of life, but you are also clearly oriented towards sharing it and passing it on to others. Honestly, reading your post moved me.

I would recommend also posting your request on WWOOF or similar volunteering platforms. They work very well, although I am sure you will also find support here. This community is incredible.
We are just beginning our own project in the Spanish Pyrenees, but I think having like-minded people relatively close to each other is a very good idea, as mutual support. One summer I travelled from Madrid to Athens in a caravan, and I found the Balkans incredibly beautiful.

You already know what the beginning is like: full of work, fighting against all the elements, and trying to build something real from scratch. So right now we cannot consider coming to help you, but we will see later if it becomes possible. Maybe even an exchange of visits could be amazing, just to see the beautiful madness each of us is creating.

I think you are brave, pioneering people, with a clear vocation to contribute to the community and to a different kind of world. Your message truly touched my heart. You are living proof that what we are also searching for is possible.

A big hug, and I wish you a lot of joy.

Hi everyone,

My place is in the Pyrenees, but to meet people like you, I don’t mind coming down to see you… and when the heat really kicks in, you can come up here.

I love seeing that there’s movement here!!!

Hello everyone, thank you for reading and for your replies — together we really make “the water” flow.
The goal of what I built was not to make it perfect, but to make it cheap and functional. That said, all of your inputs are valid, and I’m taking away quite a few good ideas.

Yes, a higher-voltage pump could eliminate the need for the converter, but in this case the converter actually helps prevent some problems. It includes short-circuit protection, and that becomes important when the panel is at around 52V but early in the morning there isn’t enough power to get the pump spinning. In that situation, something close to a short-circuit condition can occur, and the converter drops the voltage instead of letting something burn.

The house tank is about 2 meters (around 6.5 feet) above ground, which is enough to provide water flow inside the house. For the intended use, that is more than sufficient. We don’t need high pressure or high flow.
Regarding clouds or low-sun conditions, that was exactly why I chose a large panel. It’s a 650W bifacial panel with about 23% efficiency. In the test photo we had to orient it toward the sun because it was late in the day and somewhat cloudy — but it still worked. The system is quite tolerant: partial shading from plants is not a big issue because the panel is oversized, but either the sun is present, or there simply isn’t enough energy.
I did consider adding a relay with voltage hysteresis to control pump start/stop, but in practice the converter already provides a kind of built-in protection, so I stayed with that. The pump is switched manually, which also helps avoid those marginal low-power moments.

The switch and DC arcing is probably the most critical point. You’re right — standard AC switches are not ideal for DC. In this case, it’s a heavy-duty power switch (older, but robust), with good insulation and large contacts. I’m not too concerned, but I fully understand the point and will keep an eye on it. I’ll check for carbon buildup or arcing, and replace it if needed.

There are fuses inside the box, both at the input of the converter and at the output to the pump. All connections going into the well are sealed using proper cable glands.
For those who asked: the pump is submersible, with a float switch for low water level protection. It’s a 12V, 95W pump, with about 27 feet of head. I believe it’s from Vevor. Honestly, I expect this to be the first component to fail, but it only costs around 75 USD.

Once again, thank you all. It’s a real pleasure to be able to share this with the community.

This past weekend I installed a very simple solar-powered water system at a friend’s house. Until now, it was normal for her to pull 15 buckets of water every day from a 59-foot well, using only a rope. She also has back problems from an old injury, so the real objective of this project was very clear: She should never have to pull water by hand from that well again.

Not “build a perfect solar system.”
Not “install a big off-grid power plant.”
Not “buy an expensive kit.”

Just this: water should come out of the well by itself. And now it does.

Before explaining the system, I want to point out a few mistakes I often see when people start using solar power for simple rural tasks:

- Using panels that are too small. People often calculate the exact theoretical wattage they need and then buy a tiny panel. But real life is not a catalogue. Clouds, angle, dirt, cable losses, startup current, winter sun… all of that exists.
- Adding an inverter when DC would do the job. Many pumps, lights, USB chargers, routers, fans, and small tools can work directly from 12V or 24V DC. Turning solar DC into AC, only to turn it back into DC inside a device, is often just expensive theatre.
- Buying too much battery. Batteries are useful when you need electricity at night or when you need to store energy for later. A fridge, a washing machine, or evening lighting may justify batteries. But water is different.

Do I need to pump water at night? No!. So in this case, the “battery” is not a lithium battery. It is a 500-liter water tank. If what I consume is water, why not store water? That is cheaper, simpler, safer, and easier to understand.

The panel

I did not use a small “12V battery charging panel.”

Here in Europe, a theoretical 200W panel sold for small battery systems can easily cost around 350€. But large panels used for house or industrial installations are much cheaper per watt. I found a large panel of around 650W for 92€.

It works at a higher DC voltage, in the 40–50V range depending on conditions, which is perfect for reducing cable losses and getting useful production even with less-than-perfect sun.

So the logic was simple:

more power,
lower cost,
better performance in weak light,
no need to push the panel close to its limit.

That is a good deal. Sometimes the boring industrial option is the clever permaculture option.

The battery: a tank, not a battery bank

This system does not need to pump water at night.

During the day, the panel runs the pump and fills a 500-liter tank. That gives enough water for several days of basic use: washing, the sink, and the bathroom.

So instead of buying a large battery bank, I used the cheapest and most appropriate storage system for this task:

a water tank.

This is important. When designing an off-grid system, first ask:

What am I really trying to store?

If the answer is electricity, use a battery.
If the answer is cold, maybe use insulation.
If the answer is water, use a tank.

The regulator: DC-DC converter instead of inverter

The pump is a 12V DC pump of about 100W.

So I did not need an AC inverter.

Instead, I used a DC-DC converter, similar in concept to what is used in camper vans and vehicles. These devices take one DC voltage and convert it into another stable DC voltage.

In this case, the converter accepts a solar input between 30V and 96V DC and provides a stable 12V DC output, rated at 15A.

That means:

12V × 15A = 180W

The pump is around 100W, so the converter is oversized enough to deal better with motor startup current. Small motors often draw more current when starting than when running, so designing only for the nominal wattage is a good way to be disappointed.

A battery charge controller would not have been the right tool here. Charge controllers are designed mainly to charge batteries. In this system, I wanted to power a 12V DC load directly from a larger solar panel.

So the chain is:

solar panel → DC-DC converter → 12V pump

Simple.

The water pump

The pump is a small 12V DC water pump, rated for the lift I needed.

It does not have a huge flow rate, and that is fine. This is not an irrigation system that needs a high flow in a short time. It only needs to fill a tank slowly during the day while the sun is available.

That changes everything.

A slow pump running for several hours is often better than a powerful pump that needs a big inverter, large batteries, and thicker cables.

The question is not:

How fast can I pump?

The question is:

Can I fill the tank during the day?

In this case, yes.

Extra: USB charging

I also installed a small USB charger with a voltmeter, the kind sold for cars and camper vans.

This lets my friend charge her phone and other small devices during the day. She already uses motion-sensor lights with internal batteries for nighttime lighting, so now those can also be charged from the same solar setup.

That was not the main goal, but it is a useful bonus.

Basic layout

The system is very simple:

Large solar panel on the roof
Cable from the panel to the DC-DC converter
12V output from the converter
One output to a USB charger
One output through a switch to the pump
Pump fills the water tank during the day

I also reused an old switch from an electrical box that was already in the shed. It now looks like a proper fused switch panel, which made me smile. Reusing old material is not always elegant, but sometimes it has character.

The result is very simple: a home that now has water without daily physical effort, without an inverter, without a large battery bank, and without buying one of the expensive ready-made kits. This little project made me feel very good. It is a small system, but it solved a real problem. A person who used to pull bucket after bucket from a deep well now turns on a switch and water comes out. That is appropriate technology.

Care for the earth: solar power, low waste, simple design.
Care for people: less pain, less daily burden, more dignity.
Return of surplus: using knowledge and work to make someone’s life easier.

And perhaps the most amazing part: It works!!!.