Maureen Njeri

Hi Mike,

I am not familiar with the varieties you indicated. However, a little googling indicated that you have likelihood of success with the smaller trees of some varieties and judicious pruning.

I have seen banana circles, papaya circles and a combined banana and papaya circle where the bananas are the inner circle and papayas form the outer circle. I've always thought that the reason papaya are in the outer ring in a combined circle was because the pit was wet enough for bananas but too wet for papayas. I am curious how this was overcome or was not an issue in the papaya in a banana circles you observed. Do you have more information?

paul wheaton wrote:Thumbs up for this post if you want to see my book about community.

I hope this one will actualize. I think it would be insightful and a source of knowledge on how to deal with people. I have learnt a lot on how to interact with and think of people based on the rule be nice and debate vs discussion and their application on permies.com. Coming from a background where each conversation is a battle in a very long war, learning that I need not have a combative attitude/tone in each conversation online/offline is such a relief and putting it into practice has improved my relationships. Thank you for that and I look forward to more lessons.

Congratulations on your project Mike!

I think you may have too many plants for the space. The avocado, mango and loquat grow tall here in the tropics, higher than your ceiling. their crown radius may be bigger than your space too. The papaya would work pretty well given the short time from seed to fruit, around 9 months, and there are varieties that do not grow too tall.

Other plants to consider that I can think of are cacao, coffee, tea, guava, cape gooseberry and mulberry. The cacao, coffee and tea can be grown in the shade as they are understory plants.

Pineapples require full sun. Vanilla would need shade and support for its vines. Mangos, avocados, loquats, bananas and papaya seem to grow okay in full sun in my area. However, I have seen videos of bananas and papaya growing in some shade in India.

Thank you Daron for posting this and being so open about traffic and earnings. It definitely gives one new ideas on the establishment of a blog. Thank you. And yes, I've read your blog through links from the related permies posts.

Hi Dale,

As a native Kenyan, I second Maureen's comments. Yeah sure it sounds really bad, but it's true, human nature being what it is. Be safe during your visit please.

Hi Maureen

I love your project thread and I thank you for keeping us updated. I wish you more and more success.

Would the fruit you're talking about be a cape gooseberry or a tomatillo? I am not good at plant identification but we have a similar looking fruit here in Kiambu, referred to as nathi.

On your problems with neighbours and employees, have you considered that it could be witchcraft? I used to live in an urban area and with my faith, discounted such stories but having lived in a rural set up recently and seen what I've seen, I would be remiss to not inform you of the sad possibility.😔

True, Paul does advocate for wood chips as a covering. He prefers them to other types he has tried (straw, grass clippings, leaves, manure, rock). My understanding of the basic premise of Back to Eden gardening is a covering for the soil. Covering does not necessarily equal wood chips.



Imported wood chips may not be viable in all situations and does not create the closed system as per your definition. I think that a covering in it's various forms from one's garden may be obtainable and aid in creating a closed system with animals that is abundant over the years. At least that is my hope for when I get my own land.

@ Tyler,


Yes, Paul does import wood chips. The wood chips generally go to the orchard, not the garden. I see the importation of wood chips as taking advantage of a waste stream that would otherwise probably go to a dump or landfill.

With regard to the garden, Paul puts a cover of compost on which he grows his vegetables. The veggies feed him and their waste goes to the chicken. The chicken eat some of this and aid in the composting of the rest. Outputs are eggs and compost. Eggs get eaten, compost goes back to the garden. Yard and kitchen waste also goes to the chicken.

I see this i.e. the chicken and the garden as a closed system. I am a newbie to permaculture and don't have a farming/agriculture background. Am I missing something?

@ Tyler,

A possible example of a closed system is Paul Gautschi of the Back to Eden Organic Gardening Film and chickens. He has at least 30 chicken in a house and run setup. He feeds them solely with his kitchen, yard and garden waste and he gets fertilized eggs and compost that he cycles back to his garden.

Now Paul doesn't hatch the eggs as he doesn't want to deal with that many roosters and prefers getting chicks when he is low on hens and he does buy chick feed at that stage. However, if one decides to hatch their own chicks, I think one can use his model as a closed system.

Paul once had his friend's 53 adult sheep on his 1 1/4 acre pasture from June - October and they didn't get his grass down. The carrying capacity for his area is 5 sheep per acre. The pasture is downgrade from his orchard (has wood chip mulch as a cover) and garden (has compost as a cover) and is fed from them.

Kostas,

I hope too that something good comes out of it. I do hope that they'll have a report of work done so far and the successes. Let's wait and see.

Hans,

Thank you for the detailed explanation of the Zai pits. I'll go through the downloads.