john beattie

Thanks for that David, we don't own this house but the landlord is very interested in this kind of thing and we have more than enough roof space even land space if they can be fitted on the ground, i'll have a read through and have a chat with our landlord

Take care
john

Roberto, i was thinking wide wheel 12"-16" just because i was thinking wide sluice and thought an even spread of water over the wheel would be best, when i seen someone using a pipe i did think that the water would be more powerful as it leaves the pipe so more power hitting the wheel but as you say if you have water splashing all over it's a waste as you need to keep it in the buckets to help pull the wheel around so that's why i was thinking less width on the wheel if using a pipe, so i wasn't really sure what would be best which is why i was asking to start with if using a sluice should it start at the top of the hill or can it start much closer to the wheel, i know if using pipe the pressure builds up the more head just didn't know if an open sluice would work the same, the method in my madness was if i can start the sluice half way up the hill or less i could maybe build another wheel just before then start the water run from the top that way i get two wheels running off the same stream, just a thought i know that it won't be as simple as that. i have a lot to learn and think about and as i say i think there will be a lot of trial and error.

Troy, thank you for the calculator that's very handy, i've seen one or two of these but never been sure how they work, is the value given the power in electricity or is it the power of the wheel at the axle ? i can't understand how they can come up with a watt output without knowing what kind of power unit is being used so i'm guessing it's axle power which was going to be one of my questions on how to achieve this.

Jane, i've seen a few videos where people have made small wheels around 24",  in the water they turn real fast but as soon as they connected the generator they stopped solid, i may be wrong but one of the problems we have is running speed of the generator, most dc motors or alternators need high RPM to achieve voltage so a pulley system is needed to bring a say 10RPM wheel up to 1000 rpm and to do this you need torque at the wheel shaft, large wheels give more torque but need more water so i guess it's about building your system around what water you have.

David, Yes i have also looked at solar but my main problem is we need the power in winter and in this part of the world (Scotland UK) we don't get much sun in the summer never mind the winter, if we could collect power all summer and store it to the main grid then have it back in winter that would be the way we would go, but there isn't any scheme to allow us to do that not that i know of anyway. i still would like to have a play around with a few panels just out of interest to see how they work. maybe have some connected to the house hot water tank.

Take care
john

Roberto thanks again for your reply, as you say the question is how much power can i get for the money and effort needed, i guess this is what i'm trying to find out, i don't mind putting the time or the money into the project but i need a satisfactory result.
I have thought about using pipe instead of building a more flat waterway thinking it would be much easier and cheaper also i'd think the outlet of water would be more concentrated with more force than say a 12"-16" sluice, i guess the wheel width would have to be matched to the water outlet and was thinking a thinner wheel would be best. the one in your video looks to be quite wide for a pipe also it looks to have quite a lot of water coming up around the back as the wheel turns, i'm thinking this is not a good thing and you really need the buckets to empty as much a possible before they return to the top, i guess there is a lot of trial and error with this kind of thing so i'm thinking about starting with just a cheap made wheel and a short sluice/pipe then see what we have, i will need to find out how to measure the torque from the shaft then work out how much torque i'll need to turn a bunch of pulleys and the power unit.

Take care
john

Hi Everyone and thank you for taking the time to reply.

Roberto, when i first looked at this i didn't think there was enough water or head to be able to do anything worthwhile but after looking at some Youtube videos i seen some wheels running with what looks to be very little water so it got me thinking maybe there was something that could be done, now i've said 60-80 gpm but that is just a rough idea, i got this number from damming the stream around a 8" pipe and holding a 3 gallon bucket under the pipe it filled in 3 seconds, there was also extra water passing through the rough dam i'd made, i was thinking 4ft for the wheel size and as i said i wasn't sure if building a long sluice from the hill top would help, i guess it keeps all the water uniform with a steady flow rather than it having to run over rocks ect,  i have approx 80-100ft from where the wheel will be to the end needing the power, i've seen a chap over at Missouri wind and solar saying if using DC i will lose power over distance and the cable i would need to use is much more expensive, as if i used three phase there is very little loss and the cable can be standard flex, i have an Ametek 99 DC motor but not sure if this is the best choice for a wheel and was thinking it may be to big for the water i have, below are some videos i have seen showing what looks like very little water, i have this amount and some.







Dave, thank you for that advice, i'm on the south west coast of Scotland (Dumfries and Galloway) i have permission from my land lord but i know what your saying about council rules and regs so that is worth looking into before i spend any money, the site did have a wheel on it many years back it was run off a dam further up the hill, my land lord has said if i'd like to reinstate it i'm more than welcome but to be honest i don't think it would be worth it as i think i'll need all the water going in to run the wheel so the large volume would be just standing still, it would be fine if just wanting to run the wheel a few hours a day with larger water volume but i'm looking for 24 7 winter running as summer has much less water.
Maybe with there once being a wheel on the stream there will be no objections, all the water is run off from the hills no springs not that i know of anyway there are no fish but you do get wild life so will look into it, so thank you for that.

Travis, thank you for your input, this is what got me a little confused when i watched the above videos, i would have though a large volume of water was needed but it looks quite small, i guess it will also depend on how well you build the wheel and the generator size also the amount of power needed, it's my understanding the more power you pull from the generator the harder it becomes to turn this with a set of pulleys to speed it up could prove hard for the amount of water flow i have, the above videos seem to be just wanting to trickle charge batteries but i was hoping to get some usable power, ideally i'd like 900 watts but i don't think i will get anywhere near that, but was also thinking solar and wind to add as time goes on.

So yes all very interesting and always good to hear what other people think, you have all given me something to think over and all help is very much appreciated.

Many thanks
john

Hello everyone, first off thank you for allowing me to join your forum.

Ok i have an itch to scratch in the way of a water wheel that i can generate some power from, i've probably got a thousand questions but would just like to start with some basic ideas to see what people would recommend, I have a stream running past my house that i'd like to add a water wheel to, it's not a huge amount of water around 60-80 gallon a min, the width of the stream can go from 12" to 36" as it works it way down the hill which is around 9ft head.
What i'm not sure on is should it make a water run from the top of the hill ie like a sluice that will collect and run the water up to the wheel or would i get the same effect if i just made a short run from lower down the hill closer to the wheel, the distance between the top of the hill and where i'd like the wheel is around 150ft so quite a lot of sluice building. i know when using hydro they say the higher the head the better but does this apply in the same way for a wheel.
Any thoughts would be very much appreciated.

I know it's a bad time of year to be asking so don't expect an answer overnight as i say it's just something that i'd like to do next year as a little project so just trying to put a plan together.

Wishing you all a very merry Christmas
Take care
john