Dani Hill

Agreed! I wish there were more of such places around here, but I am gradually getting connected with the local resources working in that direction. Ditto the frustration with how much gets sent to landfill as standard procedure. (And - love your Stephen Herrod Buhner quotes!)

Thanks for all the replies! I don't know how I missed them and am so grateful! As we're quite slow moving with the whole of this process, even after so many months, this is actually all still very relevant. (: The idea of using the rubble to improve roads is very interesting. I'm continuing to try to find local reuse and recycling facilities, but it seems it's quite limited, so most likely all of the matter would just be brought to a landfill if we don't find reuse options ourselves. Thanks for the reminder about lead-based paints - good point I'd forgotten. Also about the building materials, Anne, I guess since most of the construction is hollow brick with plaster instead of wood-frame there's isn't sheetrock as such. But, I wonder if some of the info in those threads will also apply for plaster. (I still have some gaps here in my understanding of materials, I think.) Consulting with local permie-oriented eco-builders, I got some pointers and opinions about how best to sort if we want to use some of the material as in-fill on our property. (Which was generally encouraged - as it is "essentially the same as what would happen at a local landfill".) The main point they made was that plaster, including 'natural' lime or chalk plaster, should be separated out and not added to the soil. And a big yes to your warning about asbestos, Mauro - we're very much on the alert as there's plenty of such nasty stuff that was incorporated when the old house was "updated" in the 70s. Still figuring out the processs to avail ourselves of the govt assistance to getting that removed properly and safely. And thanks for the detail on roofing material specifically - that's on the horizon for us, and I imagine the materials will be quite similar to what you describe.

I just wanted to offer an update in case anyone finds this post and is wondering about how things turned out, as reference for their own projects. Ultimately, the key was to connect with local like-minded folks experienced and quite expert in local species and local forests. We learned that, yes, the high incidence of insect attack on pines makes it likely that the pine stands will be largely reduced or wiped out. However, since our objectives aren't so narrowly profit-focused as some of our neighbors, we can best to serve the needs of the ecosystem, alongside our own, by doing a little selective felling and otherwise letting the forest continue. So, as to our own needs: As we're fixing up an old house which needs many roof-beams replaced, we can source some of those from the limited number of pine (Pinus pinaster) that we cut. (We'll engage the services of a great ecologically-minded carpenter who can bring his saws for on-site milling and let it dry on the property.)
As for the future of this part of the forest, we'll let the pines have their chance - in fact it seems some local spider species are starting to pop up as potential predators of the newly-arrived insects responsible for all the recent pine die-off. Maybe they will catch up. Or otherwise, we'll harvest gradually for firewood, which is the intended heat source for the house.
And if there's some form of food forest potential, we'll gradually educate ourselves on the best species, should the selective felling open up new areas of interest where planting is the best course. Otherwise, we're happy to let the thinning of the pine simply let the forest balance swing back towards the mix of oak, cork oak, madrono and more, which is after all what would have been growing here before someone less than a generation back decided to monoculture the big stands of pine. Much better to reduce forest fire spread!
Of course.. if anyone out there has read this far and has any thoughts or advice, we're all ears! So grateful for this community!

I'm a newbie and am in the early phases of updating a house that was built with standard (NON-natural-building) materials. I'm trying to strike a balance of updating and replacing some elements with natural materials, BUT without sending too much of what has already been done to a landfill. At minimum though, I'll need tear down a few interior walls that were done with bricks, covered in some kind of plaster, and (most likely petro-based) paint.

So, I'm wondering how I can best reuse the rubble from this demo work. Any recommendations about pros/cons of using it as an aggregate within a lime concrete? Or could any of it be used as infill? In that case, would it be necessary/advisable to remove out the plaster or the bits that were painted? Or is there some method of putting down a protective layer first, to stop any kind of icky leaching? Does this degree of a potential pollutant matter? (We're on sloping land, so infill would be useful to build up some areas, towards creating terraces..) All of this is based on the assumptoin that the other alternative is to send it to a landfill, which seems surely worse.. but, maybe there are also other disposal or reuse options I haven't thought of? I'm in Spain, if that's relevant..

Hi Anne,

Thanks so much for your reply!

We haven't taken any action yet, wanting to be as cautious and as well-informed as possible before cutting anything of course. In the meantime, these forums have been of invaluable help on so many relevant subjects! (: Keeping our feelers out for the best course re: the pines....

D

Hello!

This is my first post on permies, after having read all the threads I could find already touching on this subject:

My partner and I have just begun living on a very hilly (and partially terraced) 5 Ha plot in northeastern Spain (Catalunya). About 80% of it is forested, including a stand of Pinus pinaster along the uppermost crest of a ridge. Presumably these pines were planted as a monoculture for lumber, though they have been somewhat abandoned and now a good deal of undergrowth (strawberry tree and ericaceae) has developed too. The rest of the forest is predominantly holm oak with some mix of cork and occasional pine, too.

We have been advised by locals to cut down and sell the lumber from the stand of pines straight away, as there has been significant die-off of pines here recently, apparently due to the recent spread of a pest/blight of some kind (I believe processionary caterpillar?) combined with the stress of ever drier, hotter conditions. To be sure, these locals are advising us from a monetary point of view, as we'd be able to sell off the wood now and presumably not in the future. Our general goals are slightly different and more varied, of course - though we are still newbies to permaculture and holistic approaches to forestry, our main aim in holding the land is to minimally interfere in the forested parts of the land, only perhaps as may be appropriate to encourage biodiversity or perhaps 'undo' any ills of past monoculture plantings.

So, we're wondering if there is a good argument for cutting down some or all of this stand of pine trees, to open up a portion of the land that could be planted with a more diverse food forest, or generally promoting native species and creating more biodiversity. As we are new to it all, we don't want to be overly bold in cutting anything down unless we're confident it can be for the overall good. (And the thought of needlessly cutting down tree growth... well, it kind of makes us queasy!) Alternatively, would it be more appropriate to thin or simply leave the pines and plant other species in between, using the pines as protection for younger plants? Our general impression - again, beginner understandings - is that pines can be unwelcoming to many other species.

As the area is on an upper ridge, and a little distance from our well, it's questionable how practical any form of irrigation would be for that area, so that's a limiting factor, too. May be possible, but may be more efficient to devote those resources to other zones.

Also, as a secondary motivation, we're certainly very conscious of wildfire risks in our area, and it's our - admittedly beginner - understanding that so many drying pines could pose much more risk for spreading fire than the other forested areas around us, which are predominantly more oak and cork, for example.

I hope I expressed things clearly enough, and would be very happy to provide any further details! Thanks for reading this far, and thank you in advance for advice of any sort! What an excellent resource these forums have been already! (: