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OMG. I am betting Paul would be an awesome neighbor to have... in an awesome area. I could afford the 40acres but can't make that leap for several good reasons. It's is slightly frustrating... maybe in another life...

I want to come out there in a few years for a class or something.



 
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Josh Ritchey wrote:Does anybody have the details on the deep roots package? We're contemplating that and could get 15-20K together. This is exciting stuff!



deep roots
 
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Yes, you absolutely can buy a % of a property inside of an IRA. No minimum %. If several people pool funds the deed will included every owner (including an IRA aka "custodial company" IRA custodian FBO "your name") You IRA account will reflect the value of your slice of the pie. Yes, I prefer pie!
 
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Marianne Cicala wrote:Yes, you absolutely can buy a % of a property inside of an IRA. No minimum %. If several people pool funds the deed will included every owner (including an IRA aka "custodial company" IRA custodian FBO "your name") You IRA account will reflect the value of your slice of the pie. Yes, I prefer pie!



Paul,
It seems like your property would greatly benefit from people who are like minded purchasing the adjacent properties to you. It would stop the logging company from just stomping through your place and doing surveylance on your endeavors. A lot of people of lesser means are very interested in getting a piece of heaven and the amazing chance to have you as a neighbor! I myself am very interested in this opportunity, but need some more information and an idea on how it might work out. Paul, lets get a few people to spearhead this mission and then provide the masses with a more organized list of information and possible ways of divvying up the parcels. I think it would be best to have the land broken up into several large chunks of land so more people can afford it and get the benefit of having more like minded individuals bringing tools and experience/knowledge to the group. I think it would be great to see people getting anywhere from 5 to 50 chunks of land. Any how I would like to get together with a few people and Paul to make a list of options and details to the land and come up with a few communal ideas. Let me know what can be done or by all means have the locals put it together. I am a knewbie kind of so it may best to be left to the people with more experience or we could benefit from getting new eyes.

Bob Mac
 
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so I'm a little curious about the rules. Is alcohol permitted, while it's certainly no deal breaker it sure would be cool. I suppose i'm relatively unclear on the deep roots deal still. I wouldn't mind most of Paul's role, but I'd like to see a designated area for smoking and such. I don't smoke, but would like to see the opportunity to include smokers like Ernie.

And I think I'm willing to take it a step further and say I can roll w/ no shaking of fruit/nut trees, just because i respect Paul's ideology.

If it would gain enough people/buyins (20 @ 20K), would it be possible to give everyone their own 10 acre slice or something like that. It seems as though the ownership piece is a big hang up for lot of folks. Maybe this could be under a corporation with the land sliced up or 5% interests or something. Just so all interested could have their own slice.

 
Marianne Cicala
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As I read questions on this thread & on my e-mail, 2 mantras that I've lived by which have served me well pop to mind:
1. Always invest your time before you invest your money. Invest time listening to Paul's podcasts as well as time looking through the posting from people living there and visiting there. Send them questions, take a trip and try it on; if your gut doesn't rest completely easy at the thought, dig deeper.
2. Make damn sure you are running TO something, never running FROM something. I understand a burning desire to change your life - I did after exploring, educating myself and having a plan. See #1!!!
 
paul wheaton
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I think it would be best to have the land broken up into several large chunks of land



Be careful what you wish for. If you did that, I suspect that the county would see you as a developer. And you would be required to build a road to that land. A very paved road.

The current owner has already attempted to break land up with the idea of selling the smaller pieces for a lot more money per piece.
 
paul wheaton
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so I'm a little curious about the rules. Is alcohol permitted, while it's certainly no deal breaker it sure would be cool



If you own the land, you can drink hooch and do whatever you want.

If you do deep roots on my land, then hooch is currently permitted, but there are days when I think maybe that's a problem.

I currently manage Armin and Lori's land. They set the rules.


If it would gain enough people/buyins (20 @ 20K), would it be possible to give everyone their own 10 acre slice or something like that.



The 20 people would then each own 5% of a company which owned the land. And you could divide it however you want. However, a person would not be able to sell that land on the open market - because the gub'mint would not see it as 10 acre piece of land. They see just the 200 acres.

I would like to think that it would be easy to sell a piece to another permie a few years down the road. I would like to think it would be easy to sell it for more.


 
Josh Ritchey
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Well Paul, as usual you've already done a deep dive into this sort of thing. Thanks for the feedback to our hair brained ideas.

How are we doing on getting enough people for a pool of buyers?

We can pull together 20K. Anyone else interested in a group buy?
 
paul wheaton
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So at this moment there are nine people interested in a Leafe style community (I just made that up - based on what Diana Leafe Christian writes about). I think the important thing is to put those nine people in touch with each other. If one person will stand up and receive emails from the others, that would be good.

In total, there are currently four parcels. Three parcels make up the 200 acres. So it might be possible that one leafe style community could buy one parcel and one other person might be able to buy another parcel, and maybe the combination of different flavors of deep roots could buy the third. And that would be the 200 acres. And maybe something will materialize for the 40 acre parcel.

So, for the people that are interested in different flavors of deep roots, please send me an email (paul at richsoil.com). I'll start tracking what we might be able to do.
 
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Sounds like a very worthy venture! If you're in need of another interested party I am. On the fence about what option would work better for me, but 5-10K sounds like a great way to have a piece of Montana, like minded neighbors & part of an amazing project.
 
Josh Ritchey
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I'm open to being the POC for the corporation bit. We're willing and able to put down up to 20K.
Please contact me at: savingwithsilver at Gmail. That email service is easier to organize than Hotmail.
 
Josh Ritchey
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We're currently at 4 people interested and able to put down actual money for the 200 acres behind the Lab. Some issue we're running into, beyond the obvious one of not having enough money/buyers are the foll:

How can we do something like crowdfunding without opening the gates for any random crazy to ruin our little permies heaven? Would it be a good idea to reach out to Jack Spirko to ping his audience, or are they not quite permie enough?

What can we do to help Paul keep traffic out of his lab since the 200 acres is only accessed through his land. This is a major concern because some or possibly all of us may want to start a business or 2, but want to be respectful of Paul's desire for privacy on the Lab. It is rather difficult to run a business if you don't want people to come to that business.

How could the land be setup, with a cluster of village style houses or homes sprinkled throughout the plot, or something totally different.

How might we work electric and internet, I assume several of us will need this to run a business that sustains our life on the farm.

Does anyone have tax info, how much we can expect to pay in yearly property taxes?

Would we be able to construct mini-homes, or should it be strictly Wofati style homes, to keep down concern from the aerial tax collectors and associated sadness Departments.

Does anybody have any thoughts for us? We're currently siting at around 60K, any help and/or ideas would be greatly appreciated.
 
paul wheaton
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Just a reminder: the 200 is actually three parcels. It is possible that three different parties could make the purchase and at closing, each party gets one parcel. One party could be the Leafe group, one could be a deep roots group, and one could be a single owner.
 
paul wheaton
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How can we do something like crowdfunding without opening the gates for any random crazy to ruin our little permies heaven?



I think you are on that path now. I think if you can pull together $100,000, you can purchase one of the three chunks that make up the 200 acres. With 4 people you are 60% of the way there. And 11 people said they are in. It seems like now it is a matter of getting a few more that will be in and then talking to Lee about how much your group is willing to put in.


Would it be a good idea to reach out to Jack Spirko to ping his audience, or are they not quite permie enough?



I think there isn't really time. Plus, I think part of what you are shooting for is a certain type of like-minded-ness. And Jack's folks that are interested in my stuff have already signed up for the daily-ish email or are already checking into the forums.


What can we do to help Paul keep traffic out of his lab since the 200 acres is only accessed through his land.



A very good point. Of course, as land owners, you don't have to abide by me at all. And, at the same time, I hope that there won't be huge traffic through there. Of course, traffic is not as much of an issue with the 40 acres. Maybe if folks have ideas that would be high traffic ideas, they would prefer the 40 acre spot.

In four years or so I hope that the traffic to and from the lab is very slight: people will be able to conduct their business wholly within our community.

How might we work electric and internet



Verizon has 4G there. Here at basecamp we have DSL with 14 down and 1 up. I suspect that there might be ways to bounce a signal in.

Solar is king at the lab now. I hope that we can build enough water resources that micro hydro could become an option.





 
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I'm interested in the 40 on a Wheaton scale of 4.5. Is the terrain similar to yours. Could you moose me an Ariel picture. And real driving time to Missoula due to the dirt roads. My wife still wants to work in the city part time while I take care of the land. Also who to contact before someone else grabs it. Thank you for all the time you put in for the pod people.
 
paul wheaton
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This property has been on the market since spring. I think the current price is way too high, so I suspect it isn't going to be sold anytime soon.

Here is an ariel picture:



(sorry, couldn't resist)



Check the first post of this thread ...
 
Austin Laureski
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What good is an Ariel picture without the duke of permaculture signature. My wife got a good laugh also. Dang auto correct
 
Josh Ritchey
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Well we currently have 3 people with 20K, 1 @ 10 & 1 @ 5. That's still very short. Does anybody have any ideas?

Anything creative or collaborative from Paul & CO?
 
paul wheaton
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Josh Ritchey wrote:Well we currently have 3 people with 20K, 1 @ 10 & 1 @ 5. That's still very short. Does anybody have any ideas?

Anything creative or collaborative from Paul & CO?



I think that $75,000 should be enough to put in a bid on the 40. Or, get together with one or two other entities and put in a collective bid for the three parcels that make up the 200.

BUT! To put in an offer, you really have to have all of the money. And if somebody changes their mind at the last second, you could lose your ernest money.
 
Josh Ritchey
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So thank you Paul for explaining that to us.

Now, does a person exist who wants to go in with us on the big chunk. I'm really aiming for the 200 chunk to help Paul out w/ the logging, but we're down to around 60K now.
 
paul wheaton
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There are several people that are in a position to purchase the bigger stuff. But they are currently thinking about it.

 
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The opportunity to buy the property over the fence does not come up often. It would a shame to miss out on the chance for it to go into friendly hands.

Although still in it's infancy, the Farmland Fund is at $2700. This is the sort of use it is designed for.
Perhaps we should talk.
 
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I thought we were talking $300 to $600 per acre for the 200 acres. That should mean $60-120K for the whole 200, unless I misunderstood something (which is very possible). If Josh Ritchey's group had $60k solid, why not make an offer? You'd get to see their counter-offer, at least. You'd have to put together more solid money before you could respond to a counter-offer, but it would get the process started. And maybe it would motivate 1-2 more people to join the group with $5-20K solid.
 
paul wheaton
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The time has come!

The current owner flagged the property for logging. And they contacted me to say "now or never".

There are a total of four parcels. We are going to put in an offer on all four. And then, of course, is going to be a bunch of counter offers and stuff like that. Then there will be deciding who gets which piece. I think the largest parel is about 70 acres and the smallest is the 40 acres. It is possible that when this is all done, I will end up with two parcels and Josh's group will end up with two. Or, it is possible that either of us will end up with just one parcel. Maybe somebody else will step in a buy a complete parcel all to themselves.

I think that if we buy all four at once, we will get them all cheaper. And we want to start off with an offer of about $50,000 per parcel - but we are more likely to end up at about $70,000 per parcel.

11 people upvoted the idea of people getting together with each other and they would share the land using diana-leafe-christian style stuff. Josh is in contact with five of those people. So six more of you need to get in contact with Josh. Today!

6 people upvoted that they wanted to have a deep roots package on this land for a lower price than the lab. So here is my offer: $5,000 for an acre. $10,000 for three acres. $20,000 for ten acres. I will deposit your check and fondle those funds until closing. If the deal doesn't go through, you can tell me if I should send you a check to refund your money, or if you wanna apply it to regular deep roots.

3 people said they want to have a deep roots package on the lab at the old rates. Okie dokie. For the next three days, $20,000 for one acre anywhere on the lab or $10,000 for one acre in section one or one acre at basecamp. Whether the deal goes through or not, you will have a spot here.

If you want to buy one of the parcels outright - all to your very own self - please send me a check for $70,000. I will deposit it and fondle those funds until closing. If the deal doesn't go through or if we get the property for cheaper or whatever - I'll send a check back your way.

Please send me an email today if you have any final questions (paul at richsoil.com) or to tell me that the check is in the mail.

For deep roots stuff or buying a piece outright, please send a check to:

paul wheaton
2120 s reserve #351
missoula, mt 59801

 
Ken Peavey
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email sent
 
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I was wondering,

Maybe you should setup an Indiegogo with low levels so people could donate that don't have a lot, and you could have a few levels from 5K, 10K, and those people will be gifted a parcel, if you raise the money you will give all the money and it will be a done deal.

than you could have $25 dollar levels to plant trees and such on the new lands. I know I would buy a few trees.

Chris
 
Josh Ritchey
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I'm definitely open to different options, I just don't know what to do for the huge amount of money we currently need. We did just pull in one more person at 5K, but another dropped from 10 down to 5. Another who was in for 5K hasn't responded lately, causing me to think they have dropped out at 5K. That puts 2 at 20, 2 at 5 and possibly 1 at 10.

If anybody can give me guidance and ideas on IndiGoGo, I'd really appreciate it. We still need our members to finalize what we are going to do if we get the land, as far as splitting it up or sharing.

I like the idea of planting a tree, but I believe we'll need some more.

I'd ask anyone willing to throw up some ideas. There are some good ideas on a thread we've got on permies, i just don't know what to use for the low price stuff.

More on the tree idea, maybe we could advertise trees from the arbor day website for double price. I'm a member of the arbor day foundation, so I get most everything at half or decreased price.

I was also thinking of camp sites like a time share, but I still don't think those would raise enough.

$5 For a thank you
$10 for an engraved brick (how mmuch is that)
$20 for a bush
$30 for a tree
$50 ---
$100 Group camp site for up to 2 weeks w/in the first 5 years (1 time use. Won't likely be anything major developed the first 4 years.)
$500 Camp site for 1 week a year for 5 years
$700 Camp site for 1 week a year for 10 years
$1000 Tent / tippi site for 3 full years. (Stay as long as you want)
$5000 A share of the shared land, mini-home site and voting rights
$10,000 A share of the shared land, mini-home site and more voting rights
$20,000 The same and more voting rights.
Etc....

Please, provide feedback. Also, issues like then revealing the destination of the lab for these prizes. We could use the 40 acre chunk for camping and such, to reduce access.
 
paul wheaton
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Nine people did the upvote to say they wanted to do a deep roots thing and I got one email about a check for deep roots. Josh - I hope your response rate is better than mine.


 
Josh Ritchey
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We're now down to about 65K with one dropped out. We're officially at 5 people now, the response rate is better, but I think people are in love with the idea, but don't have the money.

It's looking bleak and I'm still battling some serious reservations about a Kickstarter. Our group is still having difficulty agreeing on basic rules, I'm terrified of what problems will arise if we bring in any random joe who just so happens to have $25. Even campers I'm concerned with.

I have a lot of respect for your ability to pull this off with the lab. This is like herding cats, but several herds. Now I see a lot of the difficulties in being in Lee's position. We've also not received a counter offer from the timber company yet. I'm at a bit of a loss for the next step. We don't have enough money, gaining new members is proving quite difficult and I don't foresee anything significant changing in the next 3 months.
 
Austin Laureski
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Any updates.
 
paul wheaton
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An offer was put in at $700 per acre. There was no official response, but through a back channel was mention that the offer was too low to take seriously.

Attempts have been made to tag the land for logging. Some logging has started nearby.

Perhaps after the land is logged, the land can be purchased for even less.


 
Ken Peavey
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My offer of assistance is still on the table. Keep me posted.

A value exists in the standing timber. Once harvested, the land price should drop, but it has been ravaged. When timber properties are harvested down here the crews leave behind massive heaps of branches and debris. Sometimes it is burned, sometimes left to decay. Sure would be a handy resource to access. Lots of work.

 
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Any updates on the properties? I figure if they sold there would be something written here, but did they log it yet?
 
steward
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The properties have not sold. The timber company has done a little logging.
 
Michael Newby
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I've only taken a few minutes to review this document from MSU about harvesting timber in MT but it looks like the regulations for logging in MT are quite a bit more reasonable than here in CA... Would you be able to find out if the timber sale contract is transferable? I have a feeling that their bottom line price is going to be just over whatever they have calculated to earn from the timber harvest. If the harvest could be done by the purchaser then costs could be drastically reduced... There's a chance that the timber could off-set the full price of the property in less than a year, or at least recoup most of the purchase price. If I can get a chance to walk the property while I'm out before the PDC I'll be able to get a good idea of the possibility of getting a financial backer I've used before to help out. It's a long shot but I'd love to be able to say I have a vacation permaculture ranch next to TL.
 
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Please tell me where the land is located and the Realtors name that I can talk to about the adjoining property. I would be very interested in the one of the parcels and being a neighbor. Tim Reynolds 9047150218
reyntim8@gmail.com
 
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Found the link to this thread on the visiting the labs thread. What's the current status of these parcels?

Thanks
Thekla
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