Phranque Hunter

QUOTE

"Tell me if I'm understanding this correctly. Basically, many or even most “modern” fruit trees are the result of “making nature my bitch”. (Thank you Paul Wheaton for that phrase). They are largely not capable of propagating themselves to any useful degree. So, if we, for instance, let all commonly cultivated cherry trees go wild and never planted replacements, they would soon die out? Is this more or less correct? The whole idea that many cultivars/varieties of fruit trees need need to be grafted onto a rootstock is disappointing. "

THIS IS A YES AND NO ANSWER.

THEY PROPAGATE THEMSELVES JUST FINE UNDER THE RIGHT CONDITIONS. THE PROBLEM IS THAT THE FRUIT PRODUCED HAS A HIGH CHANCE OF BEING SLIGHTLY OR GREATLY DIFFERENT FROM THE PARENT . SO THEY WOULDN'T DIE OUT , THEY WOULD CONTINUALLY ADAPT WITH SOME HAVING BETTER DISEASE RESISTANCE, EARLIER OR LATER BLOOMING , DIFFERENT SOIL AND OR TEMPERATURE ADAPTATIONS- BUT FRUIT QUALITY WOULD BE SPECTRUM- TERRIBLE TO BLAND TO DECENT TO GREAT OR EVEN TO BETTER THAN WHAT WE HAVE NOW . EVERY CULTIVAR YOU CAN THINK OF BASICALLY WAS FROM A SEED AT ONE TIME .

"MODERN" FRUIT TREES CAN BE BETTER IN SOME WAYS - ESPECIALLY COMMERCIALLY SPEAKING. FOR COMMERCIAL CROPS , YOU ABSOLUTELY NEED CONSISTENCY. CONSISTENCY OF ROOTSTOCKS AND CULTIVARS. THIS ALLOWS YOU TO HAVE REASONABLE EXPECTATIONS FOR MANY ISSUES. YOU WANT A BUNCH OF CLONES DOING THE SAME THING AT THE SAME TIME.

BUT FOR THE HOME GARDENER , YOU WANT DIVERSITY . BIODIVERSITY OF ROOSTOCKS EVEN FOR THE SAME TREE- INARCHING. (I AM FROM RIVERSIDE CA AND THE ORIGINAL NAVEL ORANGE TREE WAS PLANTED THERE IN 1873 AND IT IS STILL ALIVE BECAUSE THEY KEEP INTRODUCING NEW ROOTSTOCKS WITH DISEASE RESISTANCE AND OTHER ATTRIBUTES) DIVERSITY = BETTER POLINATION , LONGER HARVEST TIME, RESISTANCE TO HEAT, COLD , DROUGHT, HUMIDITY, RAIN, BUGS, VIRUSES , FUNGI, BACTERIA, AND METEORS. WELL MAYBE NOT METEORS . BUT THE GENETIC POTENTIAL IS ALREADY THERE . WE JUST HAVE TO FIND IT AND RELEASE IT. OR COMBINE IT AND RELEASE IT - BY SELECTIVE BREEDING . SO YOU GET THE BEST OF TWO OR THREE WORLDS OR MORE.

THE REALLY REALLY BAD NEWS IS THAT MOST TROPICAL FRUITS CAN BE PLANTED FROM A SEED AND COME OUT PRETTY GOOD BUT TEMPERATE FRUITS DON'T NORMALLY TURN OUT THAT GREAT FROM SEED. BUT HEY , YOU MIGHT GET LUCKY. THAT'S WHY WE HAVE SO MANY VARIETIES OF APPLE . THOSE CULTIVARS JUST DO BETTER IN DIFFERENT PLACES OR HAVE A DIFFERENT FLAVOR OR RIPEN AT A DIFFERENT TIME . THAT'S WHY PEOPLE WANT TO KEEP THEM . THEY ARE THE EXCEPTIONAL PERFORMERS .

ON ANOTHER POINT , YOU MIGHT JUST WANT TO LOOK AROUND AND SEE WHAT OTHER PEOPLE ARE GROWING SUCCESSFULLY IN OR NEAR YOUR AREA. OR CALL A LOCAL NURSERY AND ASK THEM WHAT OTHERS ARE HAVING LUCK WITH OR CONTACT YOUR LOCAL CHAPTER OF THE "north american fruit explorers" AND ADD SOME DIVERSITY OF ANOTHER KIND . TRY NEW EXOTIC SPECIES LIKE YOU SAID . MANY BUSH BERRIES CAN STAND LOTS OF COLD AND WIND. SOMETIMES PEOPLE GET SET ON ONE THING AND TOIL ENDLESSLY WHEN A GOOD EASY SUBSTITUTE IS RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER. TRY WHAT DOES GOOD IN YOUR AREA.

YOU NEED MORE THAN POLLINATION . YOU NEED TO TOPWORK THE WHOLE TOP OF THE TREE TO GET FRUIT OF THE SAME QUALITY.JUST PUTTING IN ONE BRANCH WILL ONLY GIVE YOU ONE GOOD BRANCH. I HAVE NEVER TASTED A GOOD CRABAPPLE SO GOOD LUCK WITH THAT AND YOU CAN HAVE THEM ALL. I WOULD PREFER TO GRAFT IN SOME SERVICEBERRIES OR JUNEBERRIES BECAUSE I HAVE READ THAT THEY CAN BE GRAFTED ONTO APPLE AND PEAR . I CAN'T WAIT TO TRY IT NEXT YEAR BECAUSE THAT WOULD ELIMINATE THE BIGGEST PROBLEM WITH SERVICEBERRIES - ROOTSUCKERING . I ALREADY HAVE LOQUATS ON MY PEAR TREE . MUCH FASTER WAY TO GET FRUITS THAN ANY OTHER METHOD - ASSUMING YOU ALREADY HAVE A BEARING APPLE OR PEAR TREE.

WELL , WHERE HAVE ALL THE AMERICAN CHESTNUT TREES GONE ? SOMETIMES THINGS GET WIPED OUT BY BUGS VIRUSES OR BACTERIA. PRUNUS AVIUM OR SWEET CHERRY HAS SOME KIND OF PROBLEM AS A ROOTSTOCK. THERE IS SOMETHING CALLED CHERRY LEAF ROLL VIRUS WHICH MAY OR MAY NOT BE THE SAME THING AFFECTING ROOTS .ARMILLARIA IS ANOTHER PROBLEM ALTOGETHER . BUT ALL YOU NEED TO DO IS GOOGLE CHERRY ROOTSTOCKS AND DO A LITTLE RESEARCH ON THE BEST CHERRY ROOTSTOCKS FOR YOUR AREA OR SOIL TYPE OR SOIL WETNESS. MAZZARD , MAHALEB ARE AMONG THE LIST.

YOU CAN ALMOST GRAFT AT ANY HEIGHT BUT THE RULE IS , HIGHER GRAFTING (TOPWORKING)= MORE DIFFICULTY AND GENERALLY MORE WORK UP IN THE TREE IN TERMS OF HIGHER NUMBER OF GRAFTS - BUT YOU SHOULD ALSO GET LARGER AMOUNTS OF FRUIT SOONER BECAUSE YOU REMOVE LESS WOOD....................... LOWER GRAFTING IS SAFER - NO LADDER BUT DEER MIGHT DISTURB OR DESTROY THE GRAFTS OR EVEN EAT THE NEW GROWTH . LOWER GRAFTING = LONGER WAIT TIME TO GET FRUIT OR AT LEAST IN ANY QUANTITY. ALSO THE CLOSER TO THE GROUND THAT YOU GRAFT , THE MORE DAMAGE YOU INDUCE BY CREATING LARGER CUTS INVITING PROBLEMS LIKE BUGS AND DISEASE , BUT IT STILL CAN BE DONE SUCCESSFULLY. HOPEFULLY YOU HAVE LOW BRANCHING TREES THAT HAVE MORE OF A WILD STRUCTURE CLOSER TO A BIG BUSH . IF YOU DO HAVE LOWER BRANCHING AND LOWER CROWNS , YOU CAN CAUSE LESS DAMAGE AND GET FRUIT QUICKLY. ALSO THE TREES WILL BE FULL SIZE SO DEER WILL NOT BE ABLE TO REACH WHAT YOU CAN EASILY REACH WITH A FRUIT PICKER . FOR SMALL DIAMETER GRAFTS , I PREFER THE WEDGE GRAFT WITH DUCT TAPE BECAUSE THE WEDGE GRAFT SEEMS TO BE EASY , SUCCESSFUL AND MECHANICALLY SOUND. DUCT TAPE WILL KEEP THE GRAFT FROM SNAPPING ONCE IT GROWS AND BECOMES VULNERABLE TO WIND. I'VE LOST A LOT OF SUCCESSFUL VIGOROUS GRAFTS ON WINDY DAYS . ALL YOU NEED IS ONE BIG GUST AND LOTS OF WORK IS WASTED. DUCK TAPE IS GREAT, JUST LEAVE IT ON TILL IT FALLS OFF. FOR GRAFTING A LARGE CUT , BARK GRAFTING GIVES YOU NICE LONG TIGHT CONTACT YIELDING A HIGH SUCCESS RATE EVEN FOR SOMEONE NOT SO GOOD WITH A KNIFE. BUT AGAIN , ONCE IT TAKES AND GROWS , IT BECOMES VULNERABLE TO WIND SO SMALL PIN NAILS OR SOME OTHER ANCHOR OR STAKE IS A GOOD IDEA. DO WEDGE GRAFTS ON BRANCHES UP TO 3/4" DIAMETER - BARK GRAFTING ON ANYTHING OVER 1" DIAMETER . ALSO TRY TO GET AS MANY VARIETIES THAT YOU CAN AND SEE WHICH ONES DO BEST IN YOUR AREA - IT WILL ALSO EXTEND YOUR HARVEST SEASON. YOU CAN GET REALLY EARLY APLLES LIKE GALA OR ANNA IN JUNE/JULY ALL THE WAY THROUGH WINTER WITH VARIETIES LIKE WINTER BANANA WHICH STAYS ON THE TREE IN SOME PLACES INTO FEBRUARY . SO THAT'S LIKE 6 TO 9 MONTHS OF FRESH APPLES . NOT TASTLESS REFRIGERATED JUNK FROM THE SUPERMARKET THAT'S BEEN BRED AND PICKED FOR SHIPPING AND APPEARANCE RATHER THAN TASTE.

you should try to stay away from growing your own cherry rootstocks from cherries that you eat . they easily get diseases or a virus or something . they are better grafted onto rootstocks of other species that are not susceptible