Me Wagner

@ Paul Even though this was not MY post, I TY for the information.

Among a gazillion other things, I struggle with the the process of OP/Heirloom/Hybrid "processes. I will add these to my links and try to learn more. For the moment I am hell bent on learning more about PC and Hugleculter ( did I spell that correctly?)... Anyways, TY

Kinda got lost there for a minute in reading all this..
Hum.. Just wondering if the "primary driver" can be a newbie to PC, new to your site (which lead me to PC) and learn as they go?? I have a CDL with P (passenger endorsement). I've driven buses full of soldiers), AND I'm from the SE.. I would love the chance to learn as I go, if you would excuse my ignorance in the PC world. PM or email me if you want to. Hey, can the primary driver get a full size bed?? lol

Wow, sounds like a great endeavor! I hope it works out, and that many people are reached! I looked into the Wildlife Management option a few years ago, but never did anything with it, not sure why. I can't wait to see some of the videos, hope I don't miss the post!

Why did you/yall decide to make it only for adults??

I will just post my experience, and I am sure others who are better with "words", and have more knowledge will help you out as well. I am still online, so thought I would post my experience/thoughts.

Here is the thing.. Heirloom really just means it is from an "old seed with history" (which is important), and you will get "exactly" what you ate... Well, if you treat it right.. lol So, yes, a person does want to keep/save heirloom seeds. You can save the seeds you have, however if it is not Heirloom and or Non-hybrid, you MIGHT not get exactly what you ate.

Hybrids are usually a combination of two "types" of the same family of plants (i.e. tomatoes) which produce a specific "fruit/veggie", where as non-hybrid/ heirloom are not. Well, in truth, what we now call heirloom/ non-hybrid were probably once considered a hybrid. I think the criteria is like 40-50 years of producing the same exact fruit for it to be considered non-hybrid.. I'm not sure on that, so research hybrid and non-hybrid..

Can you save the seeds and see what you get?? Yes! I have seen several times when people will eat half a tomato( from the big chain grocery store, probably NOT non-hybrid/heirloom), throw it in good soil, and it will grow on its on and produce tomatoes. Just depends on what you want, and the reasons you want it. What have you lost if you plant a few seeds in a pot/spot from something you have eaten?? Personally, the organic/non-organic properties are more important to me. I would like to save good, organic, heirloom/non-hybrid seeds, but I have much to learn.

I'm new here, even though I'm an old, so just take my tidbits of information as you will. I was still online and saw your post, so thought I would comment. Lots of great ppl here who will help you!!

Bobby Eshleman wrote:A problem with this process seems to be that the systems thinking of permaculture requires a language that is unrelatable to most people. If you a person who likes open discussion, how do you argue for permaculture? Why not conventional organic gardening?

I think that an inclusive approach is probably the best place to start. For example, any kind of organic gardening that a person does is great and really deserves that credit.

So many ways as a 1 week old "newbie" PC adventurer that I should be able to answer "how" you could argue for PC, as I have so much to learn! I have what, 40+ years of learning to do?? lol However, a couple of things I can say that I have hopefully learned correctly in my readings is that PC is really a mixture of many "earth friendly" techniques including organic, and more. To me, the difference I have discovered in my 1 week journey of learning, is that PC is applying the knowledge of many of these practices, and adding more emphasis on the ethics of a person, family, community and their duty/responsibilities in life. However, for me, the sad part of that is that all in all, I don't find many people with "good ethics"..

I think that what has attracted me, is that PC includes a bit of many "methods" (all great), but the fundamentals (principals and ethics) of PC has managed to include organic, tree hugging, animal lover, ecosystems/preservation of the earth, etc. AND it expresses the importance of balance of all of these, and the result is SELF MAINTAINING systems that fulfill "all" of the aforementioned.

I still have questions about organic, and many other practices, but the combination of many practices is how I "currently" see PC.

This past garden season I remember being in a local feed n seed store. There was a young guy in there buying seed, etc just as I was. I rarely go out, so when I do, I usually strike up a conversation. This person told me they have an organic farm. I think about that now, and wonder.. What "really" does organic mean? If I buy "seeds" that I am not SURE are organic, but follow all of the other organic "requirements" (US) does that mean that the fruit/veggie I produce is organic?? Even if I have no clue if the seed I planted was?? On the other hand, I read a post here the other day that said PC is more about wildlife and ecosystems over "human" needs. Hum, that just didn't fit with my thoughts of what I have learned PC is. I see it as BALANCE... I am a newbie n thereby a dumb ass I suppose..

I am hoping that PC is more about an actual "process of applying many processes", which includes all of the things that will make our world a better place, NOW and in the future.

James Colbert wrote:Hugelculture works with pine as long as it is added to the soil in bulk (not chipped). Chipped material on the top of the soil, whole pieces of wood under.

James, I've been trying to read about this off and on yesterday and today, in various place while doing multiple things.. Perhaps you can help me?? I will try to take some pix really soon, but my question is....

*If I have these huge piles of mostly pine (tops, branches, smaller trees), guessing I would say maybe 30% other trees and shrubs including palmetto and water oak.. etc.
* The piles are 9-10'' tall x 20-25' roundish

Could I just move those, make a kind of layout with them, leave them on the top of the current soil, add other mixture of soil, hay, and make hills/mounds of them and use them as raised bed that way??
Is there a way I can also let those "mounds"/hills drain water down to the flat land on either side??

We have VERY flat land, which is more often than not TOTALLY dry! I would LOVE to make a couple large mounds/hills with this concept, and be able to grow stuff on it. I mean how cool is that?? I would be more than glad to move them, add some soil (have to have some brought in probably) add hay, manure, etc. and just let them sit there for a year doing their thing.

I just need to know what all I should add, Any thoughts on this??? TY in advance for suggestions!

TY John for the link. I can see I am going to be awake reading for another 24 hours.. Its already almost 2:30 am here, and I was about to go rest a while.. Now, I can't! lol Thanks!

edit: Its time for a snack and a cup of joe....

LOL, I stepped in a little deep here since I just started on my quest to learn about PC a week ago... I thought I was going to read about the 3 ethics of PC.. Oh well, at least when I get around to learning what they are, I know that Paul doesn't want to discuss it here, and I am SURE that by the time I learn what the ethics "actually are", I will understand WHY

Sorry if I managed to butt my way into the wrong place Darn smileys just follow me every where I go!

I do believe I could sit and spend two or more days just reading this one discussion! Gees, I wish there were an easier way for me to determine if the 3 mounds (recently cleared land) of mostly pine, can be used for huglekultur! The mounds are about 20-25' roundish and 7-9' feet tall I would guess.

After reading portions of this, and visiting the link in the original post, I am envisioning spreading those piles into one REALLY LONG, tall pile, and making a hill to grow stuff on! This excites me because this is VERY flat..flat, land/area we live in! Then what to do, just let it sit for a year, add dirt now, or what.. I definitely have to read more about this!

TY all for the post and helping me to learn more.

TY for posting this, I look forward to reading suggestions myself. We have those mounds of small trees, tops, and brush from when part of our land was cleared for a small homestead. I refuse to let DH just burn it, but I also know that pine tends to make soil very acidic (or so I've been told). I am just not sure what to do with it all, and wish we had a wood chipper or something. Some one mentioned hugelkultur to me, but I've not gotten around to researching it yet. Since most all of these piles are mostly pine, I'm afraid over use will make the soil much to acidic.

I am just beginning to learn about PC and new ways of doing things, and find I have a gazillion questions. Hopefully, suggestions here will help answer "one" of those questions