Yves Ball

That's crossed my mind too as we have some bigger pieces of wood, and some rotten stuff... But  a question: how to deal with a big pile of tree roots?  Actually tree stumps that were pulled out of another piece of land?  Would you include them into the hugel,  And - what would you do to avoid having great cavities undreground where the roots criss cross each other and cannot settle as they branch out all over each other? There are some huge stumps, which we could maybe saw up to some extent, but sawing the roots is not good for chainsaws... And there are a lot of smaller ones.  I mean a lot.  A pile of maybe 3x2x8 meters or so.  Any ideas?  Experiences?  Thoughts?
Thank you.

Hi Stephen,

Thanks for your reply.  We do have a small-ish woodchipper, but it is very diesel thirsty and the sharpenning of the blades needs to be done often and doesn't come cheap either (and it involves driving to town to drop them off, then driving to picku them up, waiting a few days for them to be ready etc).  It is a chipper that has blades as opposed to hammers.  Chipping stuff with leaves on does not work well, because leaves are too wet and sticky when chopped and they jam the blow pipe, which in turn jams the chipper.  Then it needs to be opened up, cleanep up, reassembled... (It is one of the cheaper models, so engineering is not top class).  We will do some chipping, but I would like to try the twigs trick, because it is much cheaper as I plan to do it by hand - well machette, or some such tool.  The distance between the forest material and the field is like you say - a few meters, so that should be OK.  I might also try some rushes (Juncus sp)... not sure how they would work, but will find out.   They arenot much further away. There is broom too.  But my main thing is alder, willow and birch because we have tons and tons of the stuff and it is like a jungle.  Alder regrows really fast.  Willow does too, not sure about birch trees, but will find out.
Thanks for all the observations and ideas.
Yves

Hey, thanks very much for your nice reply.  
We also have a woodchipper - so maybe the thing to do for annuals would be to chip the wood, leave it for a year to disintegrate a bit, and then sow some seeds.  But then, do I sow the seeds into the partially disintegrated woodchip, or do I need to remove the woodchip and sow into the soil underneath and then mulch around seedlings?

Otherwise, in the twigs, I was thinking of things like potatoes, sweet potatoes, and some perennial vegetables that are robust enough to grow above it all.  

Very good idea to get some fertile composted dead leaves from under the willows or alders - thank you... I also have access to the lake mud... That way I woldn't need to bring anything at all from outside... I've been looking at it all for awhile, but now finally, a picture is beginning to emerge....

Thanks again.

Happy spring to all

Hi all

I have been considering how to create vegetable growing area on some soil that is not too rich, that currently is grasslands, with a bit of heather and broom.  The top soil ilayer s rather shallow and udnerneath is a layer of clay.  The soil is very wet in the winter.  I am in the South of France, on 700m altitude.

I realised these fields are surrounded by groves of alder, different species of willow and birch trees, which made me wonder if I could use these naturally present plants for 'chop and drop' and thus end up creating nice fertile areas, with good soil structure for growing vegetables without having to compost, import any other materials, and without ever running out of mulching material.

So - my questions: what to pay particular attention to?

I want to first cut the grass to ground level, and then start chopping and dropping green twigs with leaves on them.  Can anybody tell me what thckness of branches and twigs to use and why?  Is there any one thing that I should not do under any circumstances?  Can I also use ferns (bracken)? What tools are best?  Any other thoughts? Will these twigs be enough to build up the soil or do I need to introduce something else as well? If so, what?

Thank you and I wish you all happy growing.

Yves

Hi.  Thank you for your reply.  

You rightly suggest books as source of information and I already have a few... Univesity libraries are, as far as I know, only open to students - you need to have a student card to get in.  The reason I posted the initial message was because I was hoping for some real people with whom I could exchange ideas, experiences and such like.  But if they don't turn up at the veyr start of the project, it doesn't mean that they won't turn up later when things get more interesting.

I spent a lot of time and energy trying to find people who could help, and in the end gave up as it seemed to demand too much effort to almost no reward.  People who have some knowledge, or claim to have it, expect to be paid for it.  I don't blame them, that is the name of the game, but am not in a position to play that game right now.  

However, what gave me thumbs up and encouraged me to launch myself into it was... one day it rained and there were small puddles of water on the ground.  Within perhaps an hour of rain stopping, the water striders appeared on the water surface.  That gave me a little ah-ha moment: it is my job to provide environment and the creatures will be there without me having to bring them.  They will know and they will come.  So now my thinking is - just provide food and shelter and wait and listen and watch and learn.  I think  people will come to see as well in much the same way.

I am in a fundraising stage of a project as infrastructure needs some repairs, gates need replacing, some equipement will need to be bought.  Hoping to start on repairs maybe in August or September, and then next year we shall be all set up for welcoming the first residents... Or maybe even in the autumn of this year. After the leaves have come down we can, maybe, welcome the first detritivores who will in the future nourish the young trout at that time of year.

Thanks for your thoughts, though...

Wishing everybody a happy spring

Ivana

Hi.  Thanks for the message.  

Since I posted the original message I have had one or two little signposts as to where the knowledge may be and which door to lock on in order to access it.  

Univesities would be a good place, but ... they do what they have a budget for.  As I cannot (at present) offer them any monetary reward, they will most probably not be interested and in fact those whom I have written to have not replied - which is an answer in itself.  

Another thing that I find is that 'experts' are generally not interested in natural solutions, they believe, instead, in high tech, innovation, involving lots of machinery, instruments, complex technology, chemicals.  This makes sense too, as if we do have natural solutions, then what do we need the experts for... In order to stay in business, they have to keep inventing something other than nature.  And my interests are in nature...

I did have one or two positive responses, though, from young people who seemed very keen, and who are (I think) qualified and able to get involved in a project  because they are interested and for no other immediate reward.  It takes a vision, as we know.  It takes a lot of other things as well, of course.  There were one or to other leads as well, so, things look a bit closer to reality than they did some time ago.

Once it is up and running will let you all know...

Until then, take care and be happy

Ivana

Hi all.
First of all Happy New Year to all of you.  
But then, the business.  
I am looking for scientific support for my project.  Presentation attached.  Presentation is in French, s the project is in France and it is primarily aimed at Francophone audience, but I think it is pretty self-explanatory.  Basically I want to renovate one old fish farm and convert it in sustainable natural fish farm - trout at that.  I want to develop the natural food chain in the basins and let the fish help themselves when they are hungry.  There will be other products such as aquatic plants - edible ones, or decorative, or oxygenating...
What I am looking for is people who know a LOT about the aquatic life in European rivers, who know what makes a river tick nicely, because in essence I want to emulate what is happening in rivers naturally, only a bit more concentrated.  I want to use the project as a learning place too, for al who care to learn.
The basins are in pretty bad condition and will need to be renovated, but the good knew is that I already have the license so some things are already in place.
Please could you share and send the presentation around to all who may wish to see it, so that we all together can get it off the ground.
At first, the project being new, I will not be able to pay anybody much, but with time, who knows...
Looking forward to your comments, ideas, thoughts....
Many, many thanks.
Ivana

Hi Hristo

No idea why facebook page link is broken... Here is another try https://www.facebook.com/La-Brizaude-1739107049733231/?ref=aymt_homepage_panel
or go to facebook and look for Page called La Brizaude...

I don't mind Zizania Palustris either; but the story with seeds in Europe is the same.  

I did speak to somebody today; though; who said they sell plants of Zizania aquatica in their plant nursery, and they propagate them from rhizomes not seeds.  She also said that this plant does not produce grains, because it needs a lot of heat... So I am not sure if she is really talking about Zizania aquatica which is a plant from Northern US and Canada, or maybe she didn't know this plant produced grain because she only ever sees it as a young plant of a few leaves?  Or it could be something else??? Anyway on the picture of their catalogue it looks right, so I will order a few plants and see what happens.  Fingers crossed.

Good evening to all.

Yves

Thank you for the links.  I have already contacted Mr Ludwig in Germany, and will see what his reply says when it arrives.  The stuff that you buy in shops will not germinate as it is necessary to keep the seeds moist at all times for it to remain viable.  Am making enquiries with Water Police in France, studying the requirements for phytosanitary certificates and so on, to see if it would actually be doable to import some seeds or not.  The thing is, if the procedures are complicated and expensive, it may not be worth the seller's while to bother with my request as I am thinking about small quantities... But we shall see.  Maybe somebody will bother...
I can't get over the company Indianrizs.hu who grow it on 4000 hectares (I read in the brochure) and they refuse to sell or gift me a handful of seeds.  That is the kind of attitude that lead us all to the point of near destruction of the planet, and some people still pursue it.  I don't know why they wouldn't... They seed by airplanes, and harvest by combine harvesters whereas <i would do everything by hand.   cannot ever be their competition, but still, their answer is no.  
What a shame.  We could seed all suitable ponds and lakes with it and provide ourselves and animals with some yummy food... but alas... didn't find the way yet. But I will.  It is a simple thing, therefore it cannot be impossible and it is a good thing therefore worth continuing...
Have a good evening, all.
Ivana

Hi

As I received no answers, I assume that nobody knows where to find these seeds or plants other than in their native countries of US and Canada.  

I have contacted three European universities who may be interested in getting some seeds too, and that gave me an idea of setting up a kind of 'association' of people who want some of these seeds.  Once we have  a certain amount of interest, we may pool the funds to pay for necessary paperwork and a person to fly over the ocean and get some seeds for all of us.  Or we pay for helicopter delivery; or whatever.  

So - this is to ask all of you: are you interested in obtaining some Zizania aquatica seeds from US or Canada and are you based in EU?  (I am specifying EU because there are common rules and regulations for seed imports throughout the EU and I don't think I would like to take it upon myself to be sending these sensitive seeds all over the world as that would involve many many complications).

Anyway - if interested please get in touch.  There is a facebook page I set up for the purpose https://www.facebook.com/La-Brizaude-1739107049733231/    please like it, share it, follow it.

Many thanks.

Ivana