Lynn Jacobs

paul wheaton wrote:Every person with the word "f***" on their lips has power over the people that choose to fear it.

Paul, that's pretty lame. You actually think you (and the others approving of this) have power over people because you cuss and people don't like it? There is no fear involved, just your childish ego.

Swearing in what should be a professional setting (such as in your podcasts or in speeches at conferences, for example) only makes you look less professional, and is a turn off to a great many people. No, I am not "afraid" of words, but I am offended by them, especially when there are a great many other words that can more beautifully and eloquently make the necessary point. If someone fills their conversation with vulgar talk, it speaks to me of inadequate vocabulary and low intelligence; it may be a wrong impression, but an impression nonetheless.

I also have great reluctance to share this site with many of my friends, because I know that they, too, would be offended by your language and attitude. What does this word even contribute to the permaculture conversation? Nothing. There is simply no benefit to using it.

This isn't Jr. High, and nobody is going to be impressed by the attempt to shock, except others in Jr. High.

Permies is a valuable place. But we should have high standards for ourselves and others, especially if you really want to spread permaculture to the world. Don't drag it down into the muck.

Ellen, I think maybe you are misrepresenting what you are really looking for. You say you're offering to let someone farm on your land and use your tools. This suggests that you have land you aren't using and would like to see it used by someone with interest. However, what you are really wanting is someone to come work for you, a farmhand or manager, not someone with their own ideas and dreams. Nothing wrong with what you want, in fact that's what WWOOF and HelpX and other sites are all about. But you need to be clear that you aren't offering a shared farming space, at least not initially.

That makes sense. And I know that the "bad ones" we've encountered are in the minority. And no place is ever perfect, even if it's your own and you don't share.

Ellen, I was giving generalities about living/working conditions. For the record we are not in our 20s - we have children in their 20s!

One place we worked I did the lunch and dinner cooking. The kitchen was a disaster, filthy and unorganized (old bachelor), so I cleaned it and made it workable for me in the kitchen, added shelves and such. I did all the dishes and cleanup even from his breakfast - and he couldn't be bothered to put his egg shells in the compost bucket or his tea bag in the garbage, both of which were 2 feet away. I did it without complaining and kept making the space better for him. But he didn't like how I washed the dishes. Never a comment or complaint that the dishes were dirty (b/c they weren't), but b/c I chose to rinse the dishes differently than he would I was bad and wrong. (Although I'm pretty sure he never did any dishes, but waited until his hired girl came in once a week and had her do it.)

This is just an example of one of the stupid issues that you would never expect to happen, and yet does creep up when you share a space. Yes, everyone gives up privacy in a shared house. Is that a good thing? It can be, but if you share your home you have to be willing to do more than give up a single room.

Again I will speak in generalities, things we've encountered, NOT directed at you personally: Will you have space in your kitchen cupboards/refrigerator set aside for their personal things? If you have animals in the house is there furniture free of hair where they can be comfortable sitting? Is their room completely devoid of your stuff - things stuffed in the closet, books on the shelf, etc. so they can feel like it's their own space? If they wake or sleep at an earlier or later time than you personally is that fine (as long as the work is getting done, I mean)? Do you attend to your laundry quickly so the machines are available, or do you leave it in the machines and on the floor so they wonder if they need to do your wash first so they can then do their own? Are you comfortable with them cleaning up their own space in their own time, or will you demand that they dust and vacuum weekly?

I would encourage anyone with a large piece of land to consider selling or trading a piece of it to someone just starting out...we need more people on the land. There are many ways to make this a comfortable arrangement for everyone involved and a positive experience.

Judith, I agree. I think a work/trade for a piece of land that someone can call their own is a great idea. That sort of thing should be in writing, of course. Not asking for myself, but what if someone wanted to work for the land faster than 5 years, say put in 20 hours a week and get it "paid off" in a year (or whatever - I'm not doing the math right now ), is that an option for you? One place we worked at mentioned they were willing to do a work trade for a couple of their acres, but honestly it was the worst section of their property. I know permaculture design would have fixed a lot of the problems, but they wouldn't have solved personality issues.

Anyway - I do think it's wonderful that there are so many people wanting to give others an opportunity to get started. But if you can't find the right person to live with then perhaps you

Matu Collins wrote:It sounds to me like there is something in your offer that is holding people back.

For me, there are three things- one, I and my husband like privacy. It would be hard to move into the same house as a relative that we know, moving in with someone who we don't know would be even more daunting. Another thing is the distance from markets that are friendly to organic food. I would not want to farm any other way. Food prices are low enough as it is. The other thing is the idea that you could send us away at any time. I would not be at all comfortable jumping into such a situation.

Absolutely agree with that. We have been volunteering/interning at various farms and ranches over the past 3 years. Having our "own space" is a HUGE deal for a couple, and especially for a family (we have a child). We have had to stay in homes with other people at times, and it's just not comfortable for anyone after a few days. Our current location we are in a small motor home. Small, but it's private and we aren't in anyone else's space. Motor homes, travel trailers, and mobile homes can be found everywhere, and putting one in for "the help" (if they are expected to stay longer than a week) is a MUST in my opinion. Set it up w/ water, electricity, and internet hook-ups, and sewer set up as well (so it doesn't need to be driven away to be emptied, or hook a hose up to it every few days.)

The best farm we worked for grew/raised over 90% of what they ate, and the rest was mostly mail-ordered (bulk oils, spices, etc.) and the occasional citrus or other odd item purchased when they made their weekly trip to town. That to me is ideal, but not always manageable, at least at first.

Most places we've gone have been fine, with an understanding of how long we would stay and how much work was expected, but there have been a couple places that didn't turn out too well. We had agreements in advance about certain conditions and length of stay, but we never got it in writing, and so the terms changed at the whim of the property owner.

Another point is that if you want someone to come in and manage your farm business and/or run their own business on your land, then you need to be pretty much hands-off and let them make the decisions. Too many people try to micromanage the workers. You can tell me I need to feed the animals, plant the garden, etc. but don't tell me where to stand and which hand to toss the food with.

You never will know for sure about anyone ahead of time, it does take time to get to know someone. Perhaps you need to simply find short term help for now, and worry about long term later???

Can't delete my other post, but this is my pinterest link.

Jocelyn Campbell wrote:Mrs. Ed, is the zucchini injury the graphic picture I saw on your blog?

Ha! No, that was the unfortunate meeting of two rather large rocks whilst my finger was in between. Ouch! Though yes, it is the very same finger

I need to get some grape leaves and some dill so I can get some fermented pickles started. And my sauerkraut I shared with y'all is about gone, so time to make more of that as well. I made a small batch of Nourishing Traditions fermented beets, but haven't tasted it yet.

Safety gloves are an interesting idea! My particular run-in occurred many years ago in my own home. Though I am somewhat accident prone, I escaped injury while working in P&J's kitchen.

Leila Rich wrote:Just be warned, I've seen (and experienced) some nasty injuries when slicing tough veges like, say, beets...

Indeed...which is why I have a very small section of my right pinkie finger missing, from slicing zucchini

Personally I would open each can before throwing it away, just to check it out. Of course that makes for a messier throw away than unopened cans, but you might get lucky! And it could still go into compost, couldn't it? A little at a time...