Assaf Koss wrote:So, on the one hand you're trying to reach independent people, while on the other hand you want to be their leader and manage them with veto power? You do see how those two things don't match. Like, at all. :=D
Any successful tribe or community does choose who lives with them.
I was about to wait for other responses, until I saw this. You must study Anthropology! This is just utterly wrong. People leave tribes for various reasons, but it's almost non-existent (as in documented, for generations) that anyone would be kicked out of a tribe. Being actually kicked out is similar to a death sentence, in tribal society. It just doesn't happen over disagreements about lifestyle. I have seen, documented, gays in tribes being accepted. It's not uncommon to have a shaman as part of the tribe, who lives very differently and slightly apart from his tribe, but still accepted as a member. Through many papers, articles and videos, I have yet to see someone who was simply kicked out.
Only in the age of the city do people have the ability to disconnect from their family and survive comfortably, not to mention with company. Obviously, this would be irrelevant to a permaculture village in its' design, because otherwise, you need cities for such villages to work. That wouldn't be sustainable.
...a big reason that the earthship project is successful is because of his clear vision, tenacity, and leadership.
The Earthship project is surely successful, because of Mike's effort, no doubt. I have seen his documentary. However, when he describes the people who live with him, he doesn't ascribe the results to himself. He doesn't seem to be aware of the factors at work, socially.
It happens frequently so I'm not surprised, but you have misread me. I said that I wanted to retain veto power in the beginning and this veto power would only apply to the project design and membership, not to anyone's individual living habits. This measure of control is just to make sure the permaculture design and construction process goes smoothly and a core group that gets along can be established quickly. It's a fact that most projects happen quicker and easier when there is a clear leader. This has been demonstrated to me throughout my life. Once the systems are flourishing and the community is stable, there should be no need for leadership at all. The permaculture system itself will become the leader.
You're right about it being rare that people are kicked out of tribes but since that possibility is there, people tend to shape up. Since primitive tribes become and stay so relatively uniform, that leads me to believe that the possibility of being exiled is enough to whip people into shape. Because of that, it's extremely rare that there is a disagreement about lifestyle. When starting a new community compromised of people from all kinds of different lifestyles, someone is going to have to set a precedent and a basic structure for the tribe to follow in the future. If everyone was born into the tribe, again, this leadership might not be necessary long term.
Seeing a documentary is one thing, working with someone is something else. I'm pretty sure that Mr. Reynolds is well aware of what he brought to that project. He doesn't need to ascribe the results to himself because it's blatantly obvious that if he didn't stay strong with his vision that the project would likely have dissolved years ago.
I liked your reference to the leader cell in the muscle. I think that we should be modeling everything after nature and that was a great reference. If we dig deep into that reference, we can see that each cell has a leader inside it that is the exact same leader as all of the other cells. It's called DNA. To translate this into a group of people, the DNA is a clear, shared vision. This internal leader keeps the group organized and cooperating. But what can that muscle do without the brain that controls it? Nothing. So in a community, the brain could be the leader that sets the group into motion or action. When a community is new, there needs to be some kind of leader to program that DNA into the community and be the brain to set the community into action, but once the community is established, the DNA is present in the members and the permaculture system itself becomes the motivation, in essence removing the need for an external leader. It all follows the path of nature well.