Mick Fisch wrote:...I think it would be pretty difficult to get a group of any size who all buy into the same world view and set of societal rules... Among hunter/gatherer groups that I've read about there were and are a lot of blood-ties and a very homogeneous world view and what the rules of behavior are in each group. When a family goes from one band to another, they are usually going from one part of the extended family to another, and they all play by the same rules (not necessarily our societies rules).
In a society that values equality as highly as immediate-return societies do, there can be no single, correct version of events or values. After all, if the values of one person are considered correct, then a different set of values held by another person must be incorrect. This dichotomy implies inequality, which is actively avoided in immediate-return societies.
The concrete result is that individuals in immediate-return societies have few verbalized rules of behavior, their rituals are highly variable (and may even be dispensed with altogether), and the individuals have no single, clear idea of a moral order (Brunton, 1989). Knowledge in immediate-return societies is idiosyncratic and gained by personal experience. It is not handed down by others. As one individual put it, “None of us are quite sure of anything except of who and where we are at that particular moment” (quoted in Brunton, 1989).
Tyler Ludens wrote:I'm interested in your project, Andrew, but it looks like you're staying up north?
August Hurtel wrote:I've seen suggestions that the lectins in most legumes are rather effectively destroyed by cooking.
I would exclude soy because of the phytoestrogens.
"These findings demonstrate that exogenous plant miRNAs in food can regulate the expression of target genes in mammals."
“the tested plant miRNAs were clearly present in sera from humans, mice, and calves… when compared to the endogenous mammalian miRNAs known to be stably present in animal serum, these plant miRNAs were relatively lower, but in a similar concentration range.”
“Interestingly, plant miRNAs were stable in cooked foods.”
Jason Silberschneider wrote:My worry is that paleo is going to lose popularity due to the many strawmen that exist because of the insistance of some to exactly copy the paleolithic diet. So then you get the argument that paleo excludes legumes and dairy because paleolithic man didn't eat them. And you should only eat food from your local region because paleolithic man didn't travel all over the world to collect fruits and vegetables.
This might be the perfect jumping off point for the permaculture diet. Once again I think of what Jack Spirko says about his "mostly paleo most of the time diet", and it seems to define a permaculture diet. He mentioned in one podcast about paleo, something along the lines of if you can eat it raw, then you can eat it as part of your diet.
Meat can be eaten raw, so therefore you can eat it raw, cured, cooked, however you want.
Grains cannot be eaten raw, so they are not eaten cooked either.
Jason Silberschneider wrote:Now we can include legumes and dairy - both very nutritions and healthy - as part of a permaculture diet as they can be eaten raw, even though they aren't part of a paleo diet.
Jason Silberschneider wrote:How does that sound as a rough framework for defining a distinct permaculture diet?
Paulo Bessa wrote:Paleo is mostly a fad
Paulo Bessa wrote:Actually a paleo diet is very specific to the place in the world that we talk about.
Paulo Bessa wrote:One thing is being a paleo in Europe or Canada, another is being paleo in the Amazon jungle or the deserts of Africa.
Paulo Bessa wrote:My point is: climate matters. Paleo can be very different, region to region.
Paulo Bessa wrote:Second point is: much of the romantic paleo image is wrong. For a starter, paleos always have a home.
Paulo Bessa wrote:
The inuit in Greenland however had a different diet; they weren't farmers, so barely no meat, except ocasional seal, and plenty fish (even less plant food than the Icelanders). Also sea birds and their eggs. And seaweed and some shore plants. Although nomadic hunting for people, they also had "homes", otherwise they would die with the cold.
Paulo Bessa wrote:Difference is, they don't practice agriculture or animal farming. They just use/eat whatever is around.
So far, from the experienced in the Arctic, India and Amazon, I haven't met tribal people foraging or cows or sheep or eating beef (sorry paleos). Just fish+seals+birds+seaweed, plants+ocasional animals, or plants+fish+insects, ways I never see in the western world nor in so-called paleo diets.