Devon Bagley

Agree. The mesquite will be best suited as your zone 5 edge tree, to provide lots of biomass and shade for your top most swale. I would not worry about the mesquite finding water. The roots will travel as far as needed to find it. If you look at some of the illustrations from the document I linked to earlier you will find that the root system will travel along the rocks until it finds the cracks or holes to allow it to place down a deep taproot. In one that was dug out of a sand dune directly over hard stone the taproot traveled horizontally over 20 meters to find an opening to continue its downward growth. They should also be able to take full advantage of the moisture from these dense fogs you have talked about. They will have some roots near the surface likely turned upward to just mm below the surface in some cases just for this purpose because it will adapt it root growth strategy in order to seek out as much moisture as possible.

Good for Palo I guess. They generally live in washes, because they need more water. Mesquite on the other hand will probably do better on the top most swale bank. Good as the zone 5 edge. I would not use mesquite directly in swale or on and below Burma.

John Polk wrote:Mesquite is a very thirsty tree. A single tree can cover nearly an acre with its roots.
They don't share well. They have been blamed for erosion...not even weeds can grow around a thirsty mesquite.

I would be very cautious planting mesquite in arid regions. The can lower the water table.

1) I would be very cautious planting mesquite in arid regions. False - This is their native habitat after all.
2) The can lower the water table. False - They will drink far less water than the millions of gallons that are dumped on our fields annually. Mesquite is an extremely hardy, drought-tolerant plant because it can draw water from deep in the earth through its long taproot (recorded at up to 58 m (190 ft) depth). It can also use water in the upper part of the ground, depending upon availability. The tree can easily and rapidly switch from using one water source to the other. In Fact: to much water will drown a mesquite.
3) not even weeds can grow around a thirsty mesquite. False - Mesquite is a phreatophyte, which means it has deep roots and transpires efficiently. For this reason, one method of managing water loss in arid areas is the removal of mesquite. This is for the benefit of traditional agriculture, and does not apply to a properly maintained ecosystem created using permaculture.
4) They have been blamed for erosion...to remove blame from the agriculture system that actually caused it in the south west. - The root system of mesquite is good at keeping soil from being lost to runoff.
5) A single tree can cover nearly an acre with its roots. True (if your tree is over 1000 years old.) - these trees prefer burrowing their taproots deep into the earth not spreading across it, though often the root systems of these trees will be 2-3 times larger than the tree itself.

The benefits:

The tree's flowers provide a nectar source for bees to produce mesquite honey (monofloral honey), which has a characteristic flavor. The bean pods of the mesquite can be dried and ground into flour, adding a sweet, nutty taste to breads, or used to make jelly or wine. When used in baking, the mesquite bean flour is used in combination with other flours – substitute ¼ cup-to-½ cup mesquite flour in each cup grain flour. Mesquite bean flour is used in breads, pancakes, muffins, cakes and even cookies. Mesquite powder is also high in calcium, magnesium, potassium, iron and zinc, and is rich in the amino acid lysine.

Mesquite trees grow quickly and furnish shade and wildlife habitat where other trees will not grow. Being a legume, it fixes nitrogen in the soil where it grows, improving soil fertility. Mesquite wood is hard, allowing it to be used for furniture and implements. Wood from Prosopis juliflora and Prosopis glandulosa is used for decorative woodworking and woodturning. It is highly desirable due to its dimensional stability after being fully cured. The hard, dense lumber is also sold as "Texas Ironwood" and is rather harsh on chain saws and other tools. As firewood, mesquite burns slowly and very hot. When used to barbecue, the smoke from the wood adds a distinct flavor to the food. This is common in the Southwest and Texas-style barbecue. Mesquite-wood roasting or grilling is used to smoke-flavor steaks, chicken, pork, and fish. Mesquite smoke flavoring can be added to vegetable stir-fries, scrambled eggs, soups, and even ice cream. Additionally he plant's bud regeneration zone can extend down to 6 in (150 mm) below ground level; the tree can regenerate from a piece of root left in the soil. meaning that you can potentially harvest the wood from the same plant for many years.

Here is a document which may help you find your Prosopis selection. This is specifically about the main verities found in south america. Specifically Brazil and Peru. The interesting thing is that these trees formation is more a matter of the conditions they are grown in rather than their genus. Page 54/98 in this document will illustrate this. ( http://www.arch.cam.ac.uk/dgb27/chapter-3.pdf ) Also found in this document is information about the importance of pruning. (Page 49/93).

I have to agree with this quotation from the document. There is hardly any soil, if it is not habitually damp, in which the mesquite cannot grow; no hill too rocky or broken, no flat too sandy or saline, no dune too shifting...to entirely exclude it.

steve pailet wrote:peltier modules interesting concept of this application.. wondering how many dozen of them one would have to put around the house to have them be effective in dehumidifying.. I had one on my sail boat.. it indeed works.. does not draw a lot of current.. but wow it took days to bring a well insulated box down to refrigeration temperatures. Had three inches of expanded foam.

The thermal transfer rate is directly related to the energy applied. It does, however, become more and more costly for smaller and smaller thermal transfer gains as you apply more energy. Mostly due to the heat produced by the electronic components themselves. Also in relation to the temperature difference between the two ends of the element. The ideal thing would be to have two water lines running parallel to each other. one for cold running in one direction, and one for hot running the opposite direction. Each element would transfer heat from the cold pipe to the hot pipe, and you could run as many as needed in parallel. You could set up a system to adjust the current to the elements based on the temp of the cold pipe to keep it at a constant temperature no matter what the temp outside.

Also of interest...they can be used to generate small amounts of electricity, so the system could be configured to feed back to itself to save some energy.

As shown in this document ( http://naldc.nal.usda.gov/download/IND43968576/PDF ) Pecan does not have a particularly deep tap root. Usually only 10 feet in poor soil, in good soil it will be shorter. The pecan root system spreads horizontally across the ground. This allows it to grow in relatively shallow soil as long as it gets enough moisture and nutrients there should not be a problem. A well irrigated flat area of at least 35 feet across will be best. Pecans tend to prefer soils with a sandy loam texture and a clay subsoil. Most pecan roots are concentrated in the top 6 to 18 inch soil layer and are most dense near branch tips. Also this species is sensitive to salt, and your location near the ocean will require that you use only rain water for the irrigation. Well water will likely be too salty. These limiting factors will make pecan growth very difficult in your location. I only suggest it because it happens to be a very large hardy tree with good fruit with high production (around 50-100 lbs of fruit per tree depending on age).

Here is a document which may help you find your Prosopis selection. This is specifically about the main verities found in south america. Specifically Brazil and Peru. The interesting thing is that these trees formation is more a matter of the conditions they are grown in rather than their genus. Page 54/98 in this document will illustrate this. ( http://www.arch.cam.ac.uk/dgb27/chapter-3.pdf ) Also found in this document is information about the importance of pruning. (Page 49/93).

I have to agree with this quotation from the document. There is hardly any soil, if it is not habitually damp, in which the mesquite cannot grow; no hill too rocky or broken, no flat too sandy or saline, no dune too shifting...to entirely exclude it.

Prosopis glandulosa is the most common mesquite in north america, and as far as I know the largest. There are seven other varieties though, and as many as 20 world wide. It may take some looking to find the one you think will be most suitable.

The pecan may seem like a challenge, because it is. This is a tree that you will want to grow directly on a swale or beside a dam. Be careful. The large root system is only grown a meter or so under the soil, and will branch out and extended distance. As far as 50 feet in search of water. Most people grow them from saplings, or cuttings. It is apparently very hard to produce fertile seed. As I said though, they are very successfully farmed in Arizona through irrigation. Very low precipitation, and very few frosty winters here.

Here is some information on pecans that you may find useful. http://ag.arizona.edu/pubs/garden/az1400.pdf

Funny nobody has suggested anything that is native to desert climates. A good start would be mesquite. These grow fast, and require very little tending or watering. I have seen some as tall as 30 feet. When they are young they are very bushy, and as they grow they tend to rapidly climb skyward. With proper pruning they will become tall with a very large area of canopy. The tree's flowers provide a nectar source for bees to produce mesquite honey (monofloral honey), which has a characteristic flavor.

Mesquite is an extremely hardy, drought-tolerant plant because it can draw water from the water table through its long taproot (recorded at up to 58 m (190 ft) depth). It can also use water in the upper part of the ground, depending upon availability. The tree can easily and rapidly switch from using one water source to the other.

Mesquite trees grow quickly and furnish shade and wildlife habitat where other trees will not grow. Being a legume, it fixes nitrogen in the soil where it grows, improving soil fertility. Mesquite is a phreatophyte, which means it has deep roots and transpires efficiently. For this reason, one method of managing water loss in arid areas is the removal of mesquite. [ Not necessary if you are capturing runoff effectively, but you can remove these trees after your more favored hardwoods become well established being nurtured by the shade and biomass provided by the mesquite. ]

The bean pods of the mesquite can be dried and ground into flour, adding a sweet, nutty taste to breads, or used to make jelly or wine. When used in baking, the mesquite bean flour is used in combination with other flours – substitute ¼ cup-to-½ cup mesquite flour in each cup grain flour. Mesquite bean flour is used in breads, pancakes, muffins, cakes and even cookies. Mesquite powder is also high in calcium, magnesium, potassium, iron and zinc, and is rich in the amino acid lysine

Mesquite wood is hard, allowing it to be used for furniture and implements. Wood from Prosopis juliflora and Prosopis glandulosa is used for decorative woodworking and woodturning. It is highly desirable due to its dimensional stability after being fully cured. The hard, dense lumber is also sold as "Texas Ironwood" and is rather harsh on chain saws and other tools. As firewood, mesquite burns slowly and very hot. When used to barbecue, the smoke from the wood adds a distinct flavor to the food. This is common in the Southwest and Texas-style barbecue. Mesquite-wood roasting or grilling is used to smoke-flavor steaks, chicken, pork, and fish. Mesquite smoke flavoring can be added to vegetable stir-fries, scrambled eggs, soups, and even ice cream. Additionally he plant's bud regeneration zone can extend down to 6 in (150 mm) below ground level; the tree can regenerate from a piece of root left in the soil. meaning that you can potentially harvest the wood from the same plant for many years.

This would be a suitable cover for saplings which will outgrow the mesquite. I would suggest hickory. The Pecan tree. These trees have been farmed in Arizona for a long time, and can grow over 100ft tall. They generally get very tall and branch out creating a very broad canopy. The fruit from this tree is amazingly nutritious, and delicious as well. These trees grow slowly, but will be extremely productive for 300+ years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pecan

For high humidity areas it will be beneficial to construct a dehumidifier inline with the cooling tube. You can use the cool water from the cistern, cool it further using a Peltier element, or passive/air cooled heat-sink which will condense the water vapor as it travels along the length of the pipe. The Peltier element, though uses power fairly inefficiently will give you a much cooler airflow than a fully passive system. Also, because of the way the thermal exchange works you can effectively use one side of the Peltier element to cool one water pipe while you use the other side to warm another. This could allow you to save some energy on heating water for bathing.

Martin Essary wrote:
The 55gal. barrels would not withstand being buried which I believe would be essential to maintaining the water temperature.
This would be the same issue with the larger square water tanks, which I saw for $30 just this week.
I want to get some of them to do water catchment from my barn for the garden.

This is not true. These barrels are made to be stacked with tons of weight on top of them. Pallets of four barrels each will commonly be stacked 4-6 high in normal warehouse conditions.

Place four barrels on a pallet, and place another pallet on top of them. The pallet on top should have some access for piping to connect to the bungholes at the top. If you are planning on burying by hand you probably wont need it, but if machine burying you can keep them together during the burying process by tying the two pallets together using metal straps, or any material which can be made into a decent rope or sturdy twine. This configuration will increase the amount of piping connections, and straight pipe that you will need to connect to it. Also it is important to make sure your set up allows all of the water to level out between all of the barrels evenly.