Charlie Magee

One big thing about the pond version of water storage is maintenance. Needing space to create a biofilter, to keep things clean, add water in summer if evaporation happens. Add shade for reducing evaporation, and probably more issues than I'm thinking of now.

Not much to do related to tank water aside from making sure critters don't grow inside, right?

Thanks for the insights everyone. I didn't expect the comments to be so resounding on the water storage side of things. Next step is to figure out which way to go. More research to be done.
Do we get 6 or 8 of those IBC tanks and connect them in series or leave them discrete or get one big tank or two smaller ones? We've got room for any of those variations, and easy hookup to downspout(s). Decisions, decisions.

The pond liner version is actually a leading contender. We've got a perfect spot for it at the very top corner of the property. I calculate about 3000 gallons is doable. But that's the spot where we have family dinners and parties during nice weather.

My wife thinks I'm crazy, but I'm thinking of doing the pond and then building a floating deck for it. Like a raft but one that doesn't go anywhere. It wouldn't be big enough for the parties, but big enough for the family dinners.

Hello,

We've got a budget of $2500 to $3000 and we're not sure which way to go: expanded greenhouse or water storage. Lots of pros and cons and several voices with differing ideas.

Current situation
• expansion of gardens is in year three and we're getting better at it. Still eating canned and frozen and dried food from fall of 2023. Will have more this year.
• The small greenhouse, 50 sq ft, made a big difference, but now seems small because we can see the advantage of making it bigger.
• Greenhouse was built with secondhand glass, lumber, doors, windows. Saved money but it took a LOT more time to build than if standard-sized stuff was used.
• We tended to over-water last year because only 1/2 the beds had drip and the rest was hand-watering and big sprinklers. Drips everywhere now, but also more growing, so cost might be similar.
• We're on City of Eugene (EWEB) water: $32.52 for the monthly connection plus $2.83 per thousand gallons. About $50 in water plus $32 for $82 in July 2023.
• Eugene is the largest city in the United States with only one source of water: McKenzie River. One toxic chemical truck in the river and we're screwed for however long. Continued reductions of snowpack in Cascades due to climate change and we're screwed (maybe.) Annual rain expected to increase in winters. Additional water supply into EWEB from Willamette River is coming "any year now."

Upcoming
• If greenhouse, then will use polycarbonate panels (fried too many starts under glass this spring) and cedar 2x. No greenhouse kits will work because yard is sloping and part will have retaining wall blocks, and the existing greenhouse is a shape that can't easily adapt to the addition of a kit.
• If water, do we get one big tank or a few smaller ones. Tank(s) can be situated to catch roof runoff and that can be stored and/or used to water some downhill raised beds and fruit trees.

Should we use the money to double the size of our greenhouse, or buy a water tank or two?

Your thoughts?

Thanks,

Charlie

You might want to check out the comments by the author/owner of thenaturalhome.com. He thinks double envelopes are a bad idea. His basic ideas are sound and have held up for years.

https://www.thenaturalhome.com/passivesolar/

"beware of envelope home and stick-frame architecture being sold as 'green building'

When examined from an indoor air quality perspective, many sustainable home design schemes are just plain old-fashioned wrong like the envelope home concept. Stick-frame wooden envelope homes allow heated/cooled air to loop around through the structure's walls. A cavity between inner and outer exterior walls is left open to act as a giant ventilation duct drafting passive solar heated air through it. Envelope homes are an extremely bad idea for your indoor air quality since there is absolutely no effective method to clean/sterilize this open 'duct area' between the walls. Mold, mildew, and the occasional dead mouse eventually renders an envelope home the distinction of being a very bad idea indeed. Envelope homes with fiberglass batt insulation are even worse. Impossible to clean without disturbing all that itchy fiberglass dust."

The idea for a double envelope home has been around for a very long time, but few have been built. That's a strong clue, as far as I can tell. I'd add that the extra expense of the second envelope will never pay off. But I'd sure like to hear about your project if you proceed with it.

Miles Flansburg wrote:Charlie, At the top of every page here you should be seeing pop up adds for the DVD's and the workshops. Are you able to see that?

Got it Miles, thanks.

paul wheaton wrote:

Charlie Magee wrote:
Like WHERE is the workshop? Pretty basic.

Clue 1: Note that this thread appears in the "missoula" forum.

Clue 2: Note that I am hosting it and next to my name it says "missoula, montana"

Clue 3: Jocelyn is doing registrations and next to her name it says "Missoula, MT"

But, you are right, that should be in the first post. I'll go add it now.

Right off the top, let me say I appreciate all the wealth of information you folks have gathered on this website and in the forums. Now I will embark on what is meant to be a good-natured rant. Think of it as an old high-school buddy giving you shit, not some random Internet troll being an asshole.


Wait. You want people to read the breadcrumbs and people's profiles to find a location? And what does where they live have to do with it? Many people run and organize workshops from locations other than where the workshop will be held. And even if I spotted the location next to your name, I'm supposed to go to downtown Missoula and start asking around for a guy named Paul?

Clues? Why should people have to hunt for and parse clues? You really need to treat me like a dumbshit when all you had to do was provide complete information in the first post of this thread?

Look, I know that this is like a little club, but if you want it to grow--and obviously you do, otherwise you wouldn't be creating permie playing cards (brilliant idea, by the way)--then with just a tiny bit of effort you can make that easier by more clearly detailing the basics of events like workshops in the first post of a thread.

I'm not trying to be a hard-ass, but I've been really surprised at the number of threads in these forums that assume prior knowledge of facts that appear to be hidden in the history of this group.

Another example: why isn't there a big huge button on the home page to an info/sales page for the set of 4 videos I've heard so much about? Or a big fat link to this Workshop? Or even a small link to ANY workshops?

What if I'm a random Internet surfer that stumbled here and I have a sudden interest in rocket heater workshops? I have to magically know to look in a forum for some guy Paul's farm? How am I to know not to look in Mary's farm?

And the link on Jocelyn's posts goes to a page that tells me the upcoming phases of the moon. Huh? That leads me where?

I'm trying to encourage you to open the doors in your thinking on how this site works/looks/feels. Especially when it comes to events and publications. Assume people don't know shit, but they want to know shit. And manure. And rockets. Tell them who, what, why, where, when right off the top. Don't treat them like dumbshits when they ask an obvious question because YOU left out the details.

By the way, it appears in the permies > forums > community > paul's farm forum . . . no "missoula" in the breadcrumb.

I've been amazed at how many threads I drop into on this site that don't provide basic information. Is this some weird clique that you have to be on the inside of to get the in-the-know information?

Like WHERE is the workshop? Pretty basic.

Australia? USA? Wales? 14th and High in Eugene, Oregon? Brother Billy Bob's Backyard BioShelter and Bar in Barstow?

The first time I came to Permies I went to a thread about some guy Paul wanting to buy land. Lots of discussion, but I gave up trying figure out where the land was, and why so many people were interested in helping him pay for it.

I just took a look at the actual site . . . it appears that 9.1 is currently in place.

I like the overall look and feel. 2 comments. Perhaps a bit of texture in the background? Perhaps some art in the footer to match the header? The footer looks a bit harsh in comparison, especially because the contrast between it and the lighter background emphasizes the "chopped off" look on the sides.

Good job overall though.

Charlie

Allen: not sure how contacting the water dept. will help. It's not water from city pipes that's the issue. It's a groundwater issue. Lots of rain in this neck of the woods and we're in a low spot in the neighborhood. Most of the houses on our block have to run sump pumps all winter long. We run two sump pumps and it can't keep the ducts empty.

R. Scott: Yes, except it was also a school and offices. But the times have changed, the purpose has changed, the hours are longer . . . and fossil fuels are expensive money-wise and earth-damage-wise.

Allen: It's not a public space. It's a privately owned business that rents some spaces by the hour, some spaces by the day, some spaces by the month. It's not a non-profit that can try to get grants. We're on our own, trying to revamp/refurbish a corner in a great neighborhood. It's either that or a developer comes in and tears it down for UO student rentals.