Dee Dee Lozano

Thekla, this was Dale's reply about the "instant orchard" effect -

Dee Dee Lozano asked about the instant orchard --- I referred to pomegranates as an instant orchard because they often produce in year one and by the third year, production takes off. Most fruit takes a lot longer to give a significant yield. If I find that mine winter kill, I'll grow a few in a greenhouse and turn the hillside over to grapes which always work here.

Also, I guess I've only been looking for hardy pomegranates which claim to be hardy to -10 F (eager to hear of your progress on a new variety, Thekla). When I was asking about the fruit I didn't clarify that I was thinking about lemons also, which Dale had mentioned Sepp Holzer grows in his gardens but because of the long-ripening period he speculated Sepp is harvesting frozen fruit. My question is how do you protect immature fruit in the winter in the case that you were able to grow lemons in a 6b zone? Or do you just not, and harvest the fruit that ripens in s/s/fall? If immature fruit freezes over the winter will it recover and ripen in the coming spring?

Crazy to imagine digging up trees every year, certainly not something I would be doing, but if you have the dough/equipment/wherewithal why not? Sepp appears to be growing said lemons on a sloping terrace, with plenty of boulder around which I suspect is key. He must be zone 5, I would guess.

Dale, you say 15 F is near lethal? We have had several days on end over the last few years of winter temperatures in the teens with nighttime temperatures near 0. I wonder what effect if any our micro-climate haven will have in the depths of winter to combat that kind of weather. My husband's grandfather grew a fig tree outside successfully here many years ago. He bent it over and mulched the entire tree heavily over the winter. I imagine you couldn't do that to a tree with fruit on it, perhaps because it would rot?

Thanks for the clarification on the "instant orchard".

Dee

John Elliott wrote:You mean like Phoenix? Las Vegas? Places where entire yards are covered with rocks with a tree here and a cactus there?

In those places, it doesn't make the root zone warmer, it keeps soil moisture from evaporating and keeps the root zone cooler. You pick up a good size rock, and the dirt beneath it is damp from the last watering.

Rocks do have a tremendous heat capacity, so down a few inches, the soil temperature is very moderated. (You would know this if you were a desert tortoise or you had one as a pet).

There is also the factor of rock color to keep in mind. A very light, almost white granite boulder is not going to get as hot as a piece of black lava rock. You can soak up a LOT of heat for the greenhouse if the sun is shining through onto some black lava rock.

What specifically do you want to do?

What about in temperate climates, like New England? We have rocks, of a quantity and magnitude that is hard to impart via computer. Primarily gray granite. We are interested in developing some Mediterranean-style gardens in a south-facing area above a natural pool and I am planning on incorporating some half-buried boulders into the design to act as passive-solar heaters for the ground around fig, olive, and pomegranate trees. Have never done this, have no idea if it will work, would love to hear of anyone in the 6b/7a region doing anything like this.

Thanks for the feedback on Burnt Ridge, Adam. I got a good feeling about them after my initial contact and their offerings seem plentiful and well-suited to permaculture farming. I was wondering about fruit set and if that would be an issue. Also concerned about this with citrus as I would like to try some lemon trees up there as well but being that they take so long to ripen how do you protect the fledgling fruit overwinter?

Hello Dale... the original link did not work, not sure why, but they do list this single variety under "fruiting trees" and then "pomegranates". They reference that the bush-type hardy varieties they are offering (?) are grown from cuttings and true to name. I've called them once, they seemed helpful and apparently the owner works onsite and is the head horticulturalist, so I plan to call them again before ordering to find out more details.

I'm hoping to try pomegranates in a spot that we are developing as a micro-climate above our natural pool. It faces south, has a huge berm of white pine to the north, is terraced above a boulder wall, and also has sandy soil mixed with gravel, small stones, and forest matter. We are new new new to permaculture but are brimming with hope at the possibilities we see for our small, budding farm. I've never posted on a forum before, and am so grateful for this site and the kind and helpful nature of the people on it.

I'm interested to know what you mean when you say that pomegranates have an "instant orchard" effect, Dale. Could you elaborate?

Good luck with your seeds, Thekla!

Burnt Ridge Nursery

Considering ordering this Southern Russian Varietal from Burnt Ridge Nursery to plant in my 6b Mediterranean garden. Says they are rated to -10 F but could be much more cold tolerant once established. Has anyone ordered from them?