seth zeigler

And i have been wondering even more today, in addition to over the course of the past decade, why it seemed that the posts in sand in south-central North Dakota rotted off faster. It is typically a fine sand in a rather active biome with ants and all, so there probably is much more to the story than just sand versus clay. But i can't explain it... and can only instead keep my mind and eyes open next summer when we return as usual to help for about a month. One possible theory is that this clay is a very quickly compacted sort, and these posts were pounded into the ground after a preliminary hole was reamed with a digging iron, and if needed water was added to facilitate the pounding, so maybe the clay compacts that well during the process that most air is excluded and thus decay is slowed?

Thank you again, Jay, i am beginning to think that you never sleep! And the measurements really help me visualize what to do, like hunt bonafide rocks of a much larger size than i have often seen used... i have seen "pea" gravel used in the past but always felt that rocks fist sized and up helped to solidify any post tamping so i have long been a fan of, but never heard the phrase, "rocked fast" But so as i tamp naturally some soil will migrate between the rocks, but the idea is to have as high a percentage of stone as possible?

Meanwhile you are very right about sacrificial on the bog, my long term plan is to actually use trees with insulators screwed into them (but screwed out a revolution of few every few years) as they will always strive to maintain a vertical and prevent rot themselves But at the moment i have to build parallel corners to meet the requirements of the predator fence...

i am feeling better equiped with wisdom all the time, thank you!

That definitely helps, Jay, thank you! i am a measurements kinda guy, and so 3 to 5 mm of charring is well beyond the checking point, correct? i guess every tree species is different, and Norway Spruce does not seem to char as evenly across the surface as it feels that cedar must from what i have read...?

And to be honest i was always spooked by the gravel backfill even after hearing many i respected tell me about it because in North Dakota fence posts often seemed to rot off faster in the sandy soils than the clay. But these were not fence posts i had planted and so i was not sure of their age, only asking others on the ranch and inferring from the other clues, and that is a unique climate and microclimate around those posts. So i am willing to try the gravel backfill if you think it is better even on a heavy clay soil that does become waterlogged each spring with the snowmelt and fall with its heavy rains. Would the idea be to use as coarse of gravel as possible, or a blend with finer ground stone that packs tighter?

But then the next question is the posts that literally will be below waterline for at least the bottom two thirds of their planted length near the bog. Gravel must be pointless there, correct? But hopefully charring is still a good technique? i think that the environment here is very acidic so that would probably nuetralize the effect of lye...

But all the better to know that i can char green posts as i debark them to hasten the drying process, good winter work in such a dark land and with such dry late winter and spring air to finish the dehydrating process

Thank you so very much for your quick reply; i have been experimenting with charring and will probably do some more this afternoon

Dang Jay, i am incredibly impressed by all your wisdom and beseech a little more details, please, from you and anyone with experience and insight We are just starting with a 5 high-tensile wire predator fence here in northern Sweden spanning a range of clay, muck, and peat soils and we definitely do not want to use commercial poison posts. The local tradition here is to hunt the most slowly growing Norway Spruces possible on the bogs or mountain tops, bark them out to dry, and then plant them as is, although there is some remnant knowledge of charring but no one can tell me the details of how exactly, how much heat how fast to what final effect. Most of my posts i am drying are around 4 inches on the fat end, although i will also use this for gate and corner posts that can easily exceed a foot in diameter due to the stresses on such posts over long stretches and is saturated muck soils, but i would estimate that typically they have 10 growth rings per inch and more if i can find it. So my first question is if it is better to char the posts when they are green, or dry? Second, how exactly do i gauge the charring process and know when it is optimal? Third, is there any benefit in charring the entire length of the post? Naturally they fail first at ground level and with the tops still rather "fresh" as this is a sunny and windy environment even if the soils themselves are often wet, so i know natural wood will hold long enough well above ground level but does it also possibly help wick water out of the post, whereas the char forms a barrier that should be restricted to the in and near ground portion? Thank you so very much to everyone for their enlightenment!!!