Thank you Miles for the links and Jay thank you as well. I want to comment on the ferel cats. These are rescued ferel cats that have been fixed and need homes. A vet friend does this instead of putting them to sleep. People bring them in and he fixes them for free and then finds homes for them. We like having kitties around because they are sweet and they keep the rat population down which can be quite a nuisance where we live. It seems to me that if the cats already exist, needs homes and do provide some critter control that it isn't against the permie way?