Dick Simmons

Central Valley

On more than one occasion, the California Supreme Court has noted that “[t]he scope and technical complexity of issues concerning water resource management are unequalled by virtually any other type of activity presented to the courts."[25][26] An example of this complexity is demonstrated in the case of National Audubon Society v. Superior Court.


Legally complicated place to start but certainly on with Water supply issues.

all those places need to start applying sustainable principles

Sure, but dropping trees in an old growth forest, to setup an orchard would be a less good idea. I know that's not a sustainable principle.... But

I'm saying there are square miles here and there that are "Good".


There are also places you start on any project, so I don't want to be disparaging, but I want to avoid "Cheering" for permaculture and sustainability. I want to talk about what we can do to have the most impact using the concepts from permaculture.

For example, water. Many designs start with the movement and storage of water, and some idea of what happens to its quality. So, on a country wide scale, would we start with the country's water, and from the bottom or from the top, or just from the most problematic parts of discharge.

"Everywhere" may be true, but it's not great for direction. Some trees should be preserved, some can be cut for timber uses, and we need to figure out which is which to some extent. So, what's the greatest abuse of the land?

California's Central Valley, and Removed Mountaintops in WV make the list. Thoughts on why? I assume shortage, and contamination in that order, but feel free to expound on what you think the specific site related issues are there, and the principles of permaculture that would help as oppossed to other "more sustainable than agro industrial practices" like organic, or silvopasture, or just exclusion from use.

So, I'm well aware that permaculture can be used almost anywhere, and that "best" is a relative term. But there are "ecologically sensitive areas" and areas that are less so...

Greening the Desert obviously has a big pull, because deserts are an obvious problem. Would it be wiser/less work/more cost effective on a national scale to work from the forests out into the desert or from the center of the desert out?

What about riparian and watershed areas? Chesapeake is in trouble, Mississippi has a dead zone... Permaculture can make great contributions to water quality and availability too.


Speaking of water availability, what about the water sources for the colorado river?


Obviously land cost, state issues and more arise, but if the United States was benevolent dictatorship run by Salatin, Wheaton, Holzer, Lawton, Mollison and Shepard... Where would we start, where do the "first dollars go" from an ecosystem wide look at the United States?

Apologies if there's a better thread for this, I did search and nothing quiet fit, but it's an odd search to come up with good terms for on a board like this one.