Tyler Leishman

Andrew, if one wanted to establish forages (for grazing ruminants and poultry) in an alleyway type system between swales or hukel beds, would it be better to do the keyline approach (off-contour) or on contour swale for hydrating the forages between. I've wondered if it is possible with earthworks to keep forages green throughout much or most of the summer without irrigation in the Willamette Valley. Apologies, I don't mean to hijack the thread.

Thanks Dave and Andrew. I had considered either keyline or off-contour swales or beds as a means to gently move the water where needed. Thanks for clarity on the idea that swales are meant as part of the vegetation establishment process. I do need to establish vegetation. I am working on a concept of alley-cropping, perhaps somewhat similar to what Mark Shepard is doing, but I am in the early thought processes here.

Although I have dabbled around the edges of Permaculture for about 10 years. It has only been the last several months that I have really started to understand things to the point that I'm starting to know how little I really know and conversely, how much I need to learn.

I live west of Portland, Oregon, and have the same situation. We get about 40 inches of rain a year, almost exclusively between October and May. Very little precipitation from mid-June through mid-October. Soils are silty/clay. We have very little runoff, but by mid-July, the soils are dry 6-8 inches down, even in the shade.

I have wondered about swales, but I wonder if it would just make a big mudhole for nine months out of the year and a rock hard ditch the other three months. For small scale plantings, I have wondered whether a hukel bed would extend the moisture through the summer, but on a large scale, that seems impractical.

I am interested if there are any general suggestions for this type of climate with the types of soil that are common to Cascadia. I will be watching this thread.