C Gillis

Huxley Harter wrote:

C Gillis wrote:
Why does this not exist in Permaculture?  I can point to 100 small resources and blogs, but there is not one centralized informational area.

There is no government sanctioned permaculture resource. Just stuff run by the wierdos, to paraphrase Paul above. That scares lots of people off.

A Government sanctioned resource would not be good.

A collective or cooperative resource from experts with real experience would be ideal.

S Bengi wrote:To me you start out stating that permaculture is too centralize, and that Bill Mollison leader/centralize version is too hard and you want to see a new different easier one. Isn't that by itself causing me fragmentation.

But lets say we created this "idealize" perfect version in English for USA, what about Chile/New Zealand/Nigeria/Mongolia, don't we still need to fragment it for them, based on language/climate/cultural norms, etc.

I am going to assume (most likely incorrectly) that you are looking for a popular, easy to understand entry level version of permaculture for folks with 1/10 to 1 acres of land. We do have Gaia's Garden, but it sounds like you want something that is less book based.  Would this version of permaculture cover homeschooling, if so which type is the best. which math book do you recommend for grade 5. Or maybe said version of permaculture will only cover food production. Will it cover flour production and sugar production that is where most of my calories comes from. But I don't think that you would particularly want your new version to focus on that too much. Are you looking for more of a community. As in a local in person group or more online like permies.com. Or do you want video game with permaculture quest?

Even Microsoft doesn't rule the computing world, at the entry level. We still have iphone and andriod and Mac.

I just have a hard time envisioning just 1 university or world government or 1 denomination/religion.

Never said anything was “too hard”, fragmented yes.

I think you can address all of the concerns you mentioned if you want to make it that robust. Rodale Institute seems to cover a wide range of topics around organic - everything from large scale farming to backyard gardens. They offer a resource that is easy to understand but also covers a wide range of topics. I don’t see why a Permaculture resource couldn’t aspire to that

I happen to work in technology, funny you mention that. We have organizations such as the W3schools where you can learn basic html, css, JavaScript and more for free. It’s a great entry point into a career in that field if you are willing to put in the work.

I send to a lot of people who want to dabble in front end programming- they will learn the basics but can move to more advanced techniques if they choose to. It’s all open source too. Check it out https://www.w3schools.com

It’s not the only option out there, but it’s a place for people to get their start if they are interested.

I could see this community coming together to create something like that. It might bring Permaculture to the masses. Right now as I mentioned it looks a bit fragmented.

Daron Williams wrote:I follow a number of permaculture related podcasts and some blogs. One thing I have noticed is that they all are working extra hard right now to help people get started. Some have made free online courses, others have shifted in person events to online and greatly reduced the cost or even made them free and many are creating content that is focused on helping people to get started.

Thanks for the post. Can you share some of those resources? I'd be interested in checking them out and sharing with new growers.

Thanks for the thoughts and your post AngelinaGianna Maffeo - there are some really great nuggets of wisdom in there.

James Freyr wrote:I see many places for beginners to start.

That's part of the problem I'm mentioning above - so lets just say I want to create a raised bed, do I do a Geoff Lawton lasagna bed, or build a bed with sides on it, how about a Hugelkultur bed by Sepp Holzer? Should I plant a perennial bed because Eric Toensmeier seems to think that would be the best way to go? Would a perennial bed be best for me as a beginner? etc. There's so many approaches out there, some people enjoy that. All I'm saying is that it would be great to have a starting point for folks that wasn't so confusing.  

People can't grasp large earthworks and swales on a massive scale

They can’t? I don’t think it’s fair to lump all people into one group of incomprehension or dunderheads. I believe people are smart, and given the chance to think critically and apply themselves they can formulate an understanding, even if they’ve never actually done a project such as building swales.

The majority of people live in suburb/urban small acre lots - that's what I was referring to there. I think its about 27% of people would consider themselves rural in the US - large scale earthworks really don't apply.

The Permaculture 1 & 2 books are too much, they just are

Can you please help us understand what you mean? Are they too much information? Are they too expensive?

For the average 1/8-1/4 acre lot those books are just too robust. Something like Gaia's Garden or The Suburban Micro Farm (which they don't refer to permaculture in their name, so not sure how people will find those). And yes they are too expensive if you can find them. My local library luckily has a few beat up copies.

Thanks for the thoughts Karl Treen - some really great nuggets in there. I also give away free seeds and have set up a local seed COOP which I'm growing slowly.

Stacy Witscher wrote:Like others have said, there is no one solution, because areas, conditions, people vary. There is a lot of good information out there, if people are willing to look. But in the end, trial and error is your friend.

We have more and more friends looking to learn from us, to live like us, and that's encouraging.

A few people have mentioned this - I get that totally, but lets just take for example "Organic Gardening". When that term is thrown around we have a fairly concrete idea of how a beginner can get started, in fact there is the Rodale Institute https://rodaleinstitute.org - all sorts of cool ideas going on there, proven, track record, people like Eliot Coleman are involved, etc. I think they are even involved with legislation.

These ideas can be implemented in many different zones and climates.

Currently Rodale is running a "Victory Garden" series, I've checked out a couple of the videos and they are great - an expert showing how to get started. Hashtags to spread the idea socially. https://rodaleinstitute.org/victorygardens/  it's pretty cool.

What would be so wrong with putting together an organization similar to this but for Permaculture and everyone in the movement getting behind it?

All good and valid points Tereza, Sonja and Paul. Thanks for posting your thoughts.

I'm currently working on some things outside of my fulltime work, so thanks for the encouragement Paul.

Good points Skandi Rogers, thanks for posting your thoughts.

Then I guess I still don't see the point you are attempting to make.

The point is what I addressed in the intial post - there's so much fragmentation in Permaculture that there really isn't a central place for beginner to start down this path - that would be helpful coming out of a crisis. Everyone in permaculture has been waiting for this moment we are in, yet I still see no organization. Let me know if I'm wrong there, maybe I'm not paying attention to the proper channels.

I did not make this site to "rule them all".   I certainly hope that I don't end up being ruled by somebody telling me what permaculture is or isn't.

I wasn't implying that you would be "ruled" by permaculturists or anyone else with an informational resource.

My opinion is that having a central place for people that are interested in permaculture to go to that is fully organized by the top group of experts would not be such a bad thing.  If you don't agree with that, that's fine, I'm just putting out there what I think is lacking and continues to lack. That's why I mentioned I'm hesitant to use the word "Permaculture" when describing any sort of implementation around my property, and I've heard that from many people.